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	<title>Comments on: Second Avenue Subway: Rethink 2</title>
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	<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2008/11/06/second-avenue-subway-rethink-2/</link>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2008/11/06/second-avenue-subway-rethink-2/#comment-18888</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.wordpress.com/?p=156#comment-18888</guid>
		<description>The issue isn&#039;t demographics or what was proposed in the Second System. It&#039;s that your line looks like a snake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue isn&#8217;t demographics or what was proposed in the Second System. It&#8217;s that your line looks like a snake.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Gentile</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2008/11/06/second-avenue-subway-rethink-2/#comment-18773</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Gentile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.wordpress.com/?p=156#comment-18773</guid>
		<description>Alon,  The new demographic of LES is going to Wall St. and Midtown, an E. Houston station would be jammed.  Again, this would also keep people from transferring from V trains at W.4th to get to Civic Center and Wall St.  That is why it is under used.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alon,  The new demographic of LES is going to Wall St. and Midtown, an E. Houston station would be jammed.  Again, this would also keep people from transferring from V trains at W.4th to get to Civic Center and Wall St.  That is why it is under used.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Gentile</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2008/11/06/second-avenue-subway-rethink-2/#comment-18772</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Gentile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.wordpress.com/?p=156#comment-18772</guid>
		<description>PS - The E. Bway station was built to have a line crossing there with part of the additional station constructed (http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/indsecsys.html)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS &#8211; The E. Bway station was built to have a line crossing there with part of the additional station constructed (<a href="http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/indsecsys.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/indsecsys.html</a>)</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2008/11/06/second-avenue-subway-rethink-2/#comment-18771</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:39:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.wordpress.com/?p=156#comment-18771</guid>
		<description>Daniel, your proposed line is a detour upon detour. Nobody will ride it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel, your proposed line is a detour upon detour. Nobody will ride it.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Gentile</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2008/11/06/second-avenue-subway-rethink-2/#comment-18770</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Gentile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.wordpress.com/?p=156#comment-18770</guid>
		<description>Since it will be some time before the uptown section (Q extension) is completed, and ages before getting to LES, I offer this proposal for the LES.  Continue the V line east in Houston, south on Pitt and E. Bway, west on Canal to Chrystie and unused BMT tracks south to Chambers St. station.   This serves the same area and a provides a better terminus for the under used V.   Chambers has extra tracks and platforms and a stub extension at Houston already exists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since it will be some time before the uptown section (Q extension) is completed, and ages before getting to LES, I offer this proposal for the LES.  Continue the V line east in Houston, south on Pitt and E. Bway, west on Canal to Chrystie and unused BMT tracks south to Chambers St. station.   This serves the same area and a provides a better terminus for the under used V.   Chambers has extra tracks and platforms and a stub extension at Houston already exists.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2008/11/06/second-avenue-subway-rethink-2/#comment-10657</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:12:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.wordpress.com/?p=156#comment-10657</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;are there any emerging technologies that could dramatically lower the cost of subway construction? A major decrease in construction costs seems to me to be the best way to get more built.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes - planning the routes decades ahead of time, so that the city can avoid putting unstable buildings on top of the street or laying utilities underneath it. Also, avoiding corruption and incompetence helps a lot. New York&#039;s subway costs are four times those of Tokyo not because Japan has better technology; it&#039;s because Japan has better management.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>are there any emerging technologies that could dramatically lower the cost of subway construction? A major decrease in construction costs seems to me to be the best way to get more built.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes &#8211; planning the routes decades ahead of time, so that the city can avoid putting unstable buildings on top of the street or laying utilities underneath it. Also, avoiding corruption and incompetence helps a lot. New York&#8217;s subway costs are four times those of Tokyo not because Japan has better technology; it&#8217;s because Japan has better management.</p>
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		<title>By: Russell Warshay</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2008/11/06/second-avenue-subway-rethink-2/#comment-10649</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell Warshay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.wordpress.com/?p=156#comment-10649</guid>
		<description>The RPA has been calling for Phases 3 and 4 of the SAS to be 4 tracks.  I have no idea from where the additional funding will come, but if that somehow became a reality, then two of the tracks could travel in the LES &quot;teacup handle,&quot; and two tracks could stay under 2nd Ave.  North of 42nd St, a two track subway could be built under York and Pleasant Avenues.

All of these ideas to enhance the capacity and utility of the SAS would easily cost several billion dollars.  No one, myself included, has proposed a credible source of funding.  Drifting slightly off topic, are there any emerging technologies that could dramatically lower the cost of subway construction?  A major decrease in construction costs seems to me to be the best way to get more built.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The RPA has been calling for Phases 3 and 4 of the SAS to be 4 tracks.  I have no idea from where the additional funding will come, but if that somehow became a reality, then two of the tracks could travel in the LES &#8220;teacup handle,&#8221; and two tracks could stay under 2nd Ave.  North of 42nd St, a two track subway could be built under York and Pleasant Avenues.</p>
<p>All of these ideas to enhance the capacity and utility of the SAS would easily cost several billion dollars.  No one, myself included, has proposed a credible source of funding.  Drifting slightly off topic, are there any emerging technologies that could dramatically lower the cost of subway construction?  A major decrease in construction costs seems to me to be the best way to get more built.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Dawson</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2008/11/06/second-avenue-subway-rethink-2/#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Dawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 13:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.wordpress.com/?p=156#comment-29</guid>
		<description>Trams running in this area might be a better option.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trams running in this area might be a better option.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Tenenbaum, PE</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2008/11/06/second-avenue-subway-rethink-2/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Tenenbaum, PE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 07:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.wordpress.com/?p=156#comment-28</guid>
		<description>Comment #4 from Mark Smith makes a great deal of sense.  What Mr. Freemark proposes will be the most expensive subway line this side of Moscow (which was designed by out-of-work New York City subway engineers).

Simply put, we cannot construct anything running under 14th Street.  A subway line already exists there.  Underpinning any existing line is the most expensive and dangerous item that is encountered in subway construction.  When subway lines are underpinned for newer lines, as was done in 1973 for Rte 131A (remodified) it is to allow lines to pass under each other at right angles but never one under the other.  It was done only once before for the construction of the 6th Ave subway below the H&amp;M Tubes.  In that case, the H&amp;M was shut down and rebuilt.  I don&#039;t think anyone wants the 14th Street line shut down for an appreciable amount of time.

But suppose money mysteriously pops up from somewhere.  Then another issue makes its appearance.  East Village and Alphabet City are located on landfill that closed up the old Collect Pond (site of the infamous Five Points) and several underground streams.  Any subway there would have to cut into bedrock with significant dewatering as was done for the remediation of the Northern Manhattan stations in the mid 1970s.  Is this the best use of MTA money?

IMO, handing out reduced transfer Metro Cards from bus to subway for residents makes more sense than that which was proposed.

Before we start proposing new lines for Manhattan it is important to keep in mind that subway construction is expensive and when we consider the utility and sewer relocation, underpinning and all that landfill that exists east of 3rd Ave, it really gets expensive -- prohibitively expensive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comment #4 from Mark Smith makes a great deal of sense.  What Mr. Freemark proposes will be the most expensive subway line this side of Moscow (which was designed by out-of-work New York City subway engineers).</p>
<p>Simply put, we cannot construct anything running under 14th Street.  A subway line already exists there.  Underpinning any existing line is the most expensive and dangerous item that is encountered in subway construction.  When subway lines are underpinned for newer lines, as was done in 1973 for Rte 131A (remodified) it is to allow lines to pass under each other at right angles but never one under the other.  It was done only once before for the construction of the 6th Ave subway below the H&amp;M Tubes.  In that case, the H&amp;M was shut down and rebuilt.  I don&#8217;t think anyone wants the 14th Street line shut down for an appreciable amount of time.</p>
<p>But suppose money mysteriously pops up from somewhere.  Then another issue makes its appearance.  East Village and Alphabet City are located on landfill that closed up the old Collect Pond (site of the infamous Five Points) and several underground streams.  Any subway there would have to cut into bedrock with significant dewatering as was done for the remediation of the Northern Manhattan stations in the mid 1970s.  Is this the best use of MTA money?</p>
<p>IMO, handing out reduced transfer Metro Cards from bus to subway for residents makes more sense than that which was proposed.</p>
<p>Before we start proposing new lines for Manhattan it is important to keep in mind that subway construction is expensive and when we consider the utility and sewer relocation, underpinning and all that landfill that exists east of 3rd Ave, it really gets expensive &#8212; prohibitively expensive.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd Edelman Green Idea Factory</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2008/11/06/second-avenue-subway-rethink-2/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Edelman Green Idea Factory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.wordpress.com/?p=156#comment-27</guid>
		<description>If the route follows 2nd Ave., what are the plans for lots of high-quality, high-security bicycle parking? This could be of great use to lots of folks to the east.  Public bikes could be a major player, too.

Certainly lots of people would not cycle, and this should not be a substitution for an LES route.

(I live in nearly tram-free west Berlin now, before that on a busy tram line in Prague, and much earlier on E. 10th at 2nd and E. 10th at Ave. C)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the route follows 2nd Ave., what are the plans for lots of high-quality, high-security bicycle parking? This could be of great use to lots of folks to the east.  Public bikes could be a major player, too.</p>
<p>Certainly lots of people would not cycle, and this should not be a substitution for an LES route.</p>
<p>(I live in nearly tram-free west Berlin now, before that on a busy tram line in Prague, and much earlier on E. 10th at 2nd and E. 10th at Ave. C)</p>
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