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	<title>Comments on: Should Transit Systems Be Designed for the Handicapped?</title>
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		<title>By: Sampson</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/03/29/should-transit-systems-be-designed-for-the-handicapped/#comment-10257</link>
		<dc:creator>Sampson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=1808#comment-10257</guid>
		<description>One thing not mentioned here is that it takes an inordinate amount of time and effort to chair-lift a disabled person onto a busy bus. I don&#039;t by any means begrudge wheelchair bound travelers a bus ride however as I type this I&#039;m on a NJ Transit bus over 17 minutes into getting just one handicapped passenger on board. Everyone on the bus is frustrated, many have gotten off the bus and a vocal few are lamenting the fact that they&#039;re going to be late for work. I know I&#039;ve missed my connecting bus by now as well.  Transit systems that accept disabled passengers need to be much more efficient than they are. Ask any bus-rider who&#039;s had their entire day&#039;s schedule ruined by the misfortune of having two disabled riders board their bus during a single trip.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing not mentioned here is that it takes an inordinate amount of time and effort to chair-lift a disabled person onto a busy bus. I don&#8217;t by any means begrudge wheelchair bound travelers a bus ride however as I type this I&#8217;m on a NJ Transit bus over 17 minutes into getting just one handicapped passenger on board. Everyone on the bus is frustrated, many have gotten off the bus and a vocal few are lamenting the fact that they&#8217;re going to be late for work. I know I&#8217;ve missed my connecting bus by now as well.  Transit systems that accept disabled passengers need to be much more efficient than they are. Ask any bus-rider who&#8217;s had their entire day&#8217;s schedule ruined by the misfortune of having two disabled riders board their bus during a single trip.</p>
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		<title>By: Don K</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/03/29/should-transit-systems-be-designed-for-the-handicapped/#comment-8070</link>
		<dc:creator>Don K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=1808#comment-8070</guid>
		<description>Paratransit is totally inadequate to meet the needs of the disabled.  My partner has MS, so has numerous doctor&#039;s appointments to attend (internist, neurologist, neurosurgeon, ophthamologist, endocrinologist).  After he moved in with me and while I was still working he investigated the possibility of using SMART (southeast Michigan) paratransit.  He found not only do you have to make a reservation, the actual pickup time can be 30 minutes either side of the estimated time.  So, you have to be ready to go (the bus only waits in your driveway for a minute or so) well in advance of the estimated time,  and could be waiting for up to an hour if it arrives at the end of the window.  At the doctor&#039;s office, you could have an hour wait until the appointment time.

For the return trip, they will schedule a firm pickup time, but if the doctor is running late or schedules unexpected tests, you might miss that time and be out of luck for getting home.

As a result, we decided I would be the paratransit and would take time off work for his appointments (it works really well if you schedule the appointments at the beginning or end of the day and have a boss who is willing to work with you on these things).  And now that I&#039;m retired, my car is the default option.

Sorry, but paratransit is one of those things (like restaurants whose disabled entrance winds through the kitchen - we&#039;ve seen that too) that reminds disabled people that they&#039;re second-class citizens, and that their time has no value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paratransit is totally inadequate to meet the needs of the disabled.  My partner has MS, so has numerous doctor&#8217;s appointments to attend (internist, neurologist, neurosurgeon, ophthamologist, endocrinologist).  After he moved in with me and while I was still working he investigated the possibility of using SMART (southeast Michigan) paratransit.  He found not only do you have to make a reservation, the actual pickup time can be 30 minutes either side of the estimated time.  So, you have to be ready to go (the bus only waits in your driveway for a minute or so) well in advance of the estimated time,  and could be waiting for up to an hour if it arrives at the end of the window.  At the doctor&#8217;s office, you could have an hour wait until the appointment time.</p>
<p>For the return trip, they will schedule a firm pickup time, but if the doctor is running late or schedules unexpected tests, you might miss that time and be out of luck for getting home.</p>
<p>As a result, we decided I would be the paratransit and would take time off work for his appointments (it works really well if you schedule the appointments at the beginning or end of the day and have a boss who is willing to work with you on these things).  And now that I&#8217;m retired, my car is the default option.</p>
<p>Sorry, but paratransit is one of those things (like restaurants whose disabled entrance winds through the kitchen &#8211; we&#8217;ve seen that too) that reminds disabled people that they&#8217;re second-class citizens, and that their time has no value.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/03/29/should-transit-systems-be-designed-for-the-handicapped/#comment-7475</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=1808#comment-7475</guid>
		<description>&quot;PS 2 the Eurounion has similar disability access laws and the London Underground and Paris Metro are being made accessible also by law.&quot;

Glad to hear that about Paris (I don&#039;t read French).  The incredibly close spacing of the Paris stations is going to make it by far the hardest system in the world to make accessible.

I know every system I visited in Germany was slowly being made accessible, and that was back in the 1990s, so the laws must be even older there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;PS 2 the Eurounion has similar disability access laws and the London Underground and Paris Metro are being made accessible also by law.&#8221;</p>
<p>Glad to hear that about Paris (I don&#8217;t read French).  The incredibly close spacing of the Paris stations is going to make it by far the hardest system in the world to make accessible.</p>
<p>I know every system I visited in Germany was slowly being made accessible, and that was back in the 1990s, so the laws must be even older there.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/03/29/should-transit-systems-be-designed-for-the-handicapped/#comment-7473</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=1808#comment-7473</guid>
		<description>Also, I will note that Transport for London took advantage of the DDA.  They decided that as long as they&#039;re making the system wheelchair accessible, they will encourage the use of the same facilities for strollers, baggage, et cetera.  Making a virtue of necessity.

The NYC Subway has had the opposite attitude -- a bad attitude.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, I will note that Transport for London took advantage of the DDA.  They decided that as long as they&#8217;re making the system wheelchair accessible, they will encourage the use of the same facilities for strollers, baggage, et cetera.  Making a virtue of necessity.</p>
<p>The NYC Subway has had the opposite attitude &#8212; a bad attitude.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/03/29/should-transit-systems-be-designed-for-the-handicapped/#comment-7471</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=1808#comment-7471</guid>
		<description>&quot;making improvements in stations of the London Underground or Paris Métro, where the transit agencies are not required to provide access to the mobility-impaired.&quot;

FALSE.

The UK has the &quot;Disability Discrimination Act&quot;, which is their equivalent of the ADA.  It isn&#039;t quite as strict, but basically the transit agency has to either plead &quot;impossibility&quot; (which they can do in the US too) or say that they&#039;re only doing minor cosmetic improvements -- otherwise they have to revise the station to make it fully accessible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;making improvements in stations of the London Underground or Paris Métro, where the transit agencies are not required to provide access to the mobility-impaired.&#8221;</p>
<p>FALSE.</p>
<p>The UK has the &#8220;Disability Discrimination Act&#8221;, which is their equivalent of the ADA.  It isn&#8217;t quite as strict, but basically the transit agency has to either plead &#8220;impossibility&#8221; (which they can do in the US too) or say that they&#8217;re only doing minor cosmetic improvements &#8212; otherwise they have to revise the station to make it fully accessible.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/03/29/should-transit-systems-be-designed-for-the-handicapped/#comment-823</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=1808#comment-823</guid>
		<description>Yes, Yes, Yes. If you are thinking separate but equal, I&#039;d say that it isn&#039;t so. DC Metro provides the fastest trip, faster than automobile on many occasions. Including everyone onto the Great Society Subway is a good social equality thing, on top of the cost savings (everyone can use elevators, paratransit is for a small group.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Yes, Yes. If you are thinking separate but equal, I&#8217;d say that it isn&#8217;t so. DC Metro provides the fastest trip, faster than automobile on many occasions. Including everyone onto the Great Society Subway is a good social equality thing, on top of the cost savings (everyone can use elevators, paratransit is for a small group.)</p>
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		<title>By: Susan De Vos</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/03/29/should-transit-systems-be-designed-for-the-handicapped/#comment-821</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan De Vos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 13:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=1808#comment-821</guid>
		<description>I wonder what Graham would say  if he were required to travel by Paratransit all the time.  What does &quot;separate but equal&quot; mean?  That concept was ruled illegal for public education.  Is it illegal for public transportation as well?

I enjoy commuting to/from work by Mainline because the Mainline buses here in Madison, Wisconsin have ramps that enable me to board.  Ambulatory people with other special needs are also accommodated.  We also have a paratransit service because some people just cannot ride Mainline for one reason or another.  The true operating cost of a paratransit trip one way is about $30 compared to about $5 for a Mainline trip.  At what point is retrofitting older transit stations financially wise just based on this differential alone, even barring other considerations?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what Graham would say  if he were required to travel by Paratransit all the time.  What does &#8220;separate but equal&#8221; mean?  That concept was ruled illegal for public education.  Is it illegal for public transportation as well?</p>
<p>I enjoy commuting to/from work by Mainline because the Mainline buses here in Madison, Wisconsin have ramps that enable me to board.  Ambulatory people with other special needs are also accommodated.  We also have a paratransit service because some people just cannot ride Mainline for one reason or another.  The true operating cost of a paratransit trip one way is about $30 compared to about $5 for a Mainline trip.  At what point is retrofitting older transit stations financially wise just based on this differential alone, even barring other considerations?</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Parker</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/03/29/should-transit-systems-be-designed-for-the-handicapped/#comment-822</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Parker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 00:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=1808#comment-822</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve often used the elevators in Washington and Boston and have no handicap at all (other than all the foibles of being human).   I bring suitcases with wheels on board elevators with some regularity - at hotels and on transit systems.  Our society has a level of expectation of customer service and mobility that is established (see JP&#039;s comment above).  Would you argue that hotels shouldn&#039;t have elevators?  Would you just shrug if they were all out of service?  No.

Regarding paratransit - maybe it&#039;s time to de-emphasize organized paratransit and instead move toward cab vouchers for those who need and cabs with wheelchair access (perhaps mini-vans rather than full cutaways).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve often used the elevators in Washington and Boston and have no handicap at all (other than all the foibles of being human).   I bring suitcases with wheels on board elevators with some regularity &#8211; at hotels and on transit systems.  Our society has a level of expectation of customer service and mobility that is established (see JP&#8217;s comment above).  Would you argue that hotels shouldn&#8217;t have elevators?  Would you just shrug if they were all out of service?  No.</p>
<p>Regarding paratransit &#8211; maybe it&#8217;s time to de-emphasize organized paratransit and instead move toward cab vouchers for those who need and cabs with wheelchair access (perhaps mini-vans rather than full cutaways).</p>
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		<title>By: JP Perry</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/03/29/should-transit-systems-be-designed-for-the-handicapped/#comment-820</link>
		<dc:creator>JP Perry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=1808#comment-820</guid>
		<description>Why spend the money to install elevators and not spend the money to keep them working? Everywhere I go, I see functioning elevators, and the ones in transit stations should be no different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why spend the money to install elevators and not spend the money to keep them working? Everywhere I go, I see functioning elevators, and the ones in transit stations should be no different.</p>
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		<title>By: t joey</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/03/29/should-transit-systems-be-designed-for-the-handicapped/#comment-819</link>
		<dc:creator>t joey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 04:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=1808#comment-819</guid>
		<description>It is astounding how few people in the transportation community are at all in touch with the demographic crisis that is about to call our entire transportation system into question.  Of course I am talking about the Grey Boom.  We all like to complain or joke about elderly drivers, but they can&#039;t come off the road if they have no alternative.  Just like the previous commenter noted ParaTransit services are very expensive and additionally are often uncoordinated in terms of an elderly person&#039;s destination needs (think trips to doctors appointments, pharmacies, grocery stores etc. which may not be suitable for MediVan or ParaTransit).  We&#039;ll need to make sure our existing systems are ready for this massive soon to be elderly cohort.

Futher - I live in Boston on the blue line which is currently undergoing a modernization.  I would argue that if it weren&#039;t for the pressure to make the T more ADA compliant the blue line would still rotting away.  I&#039;m sure we&#039;d all love to see projects happen faster, easier, and cheaper but we can&#039;t neglect members of our society that aren&#039;t fully able.

It isn&#039;t just the people in wheel chairs or with walking sticks that need elevators etc.  Its people with children, grocery bags, and people that are simply tired after a long days work.  Elevators and escalators are an amenity that attracts people to transit and away from their private autos.  I am personally sick of people at my work place saying &quot;Oh, you can take transit because you are young&quot; or &quot;You don&#039;t have a toddler in a stroller, so the stairs aren&#039;t a bother to you.&quot;

Lastly - DO NOT give in and say its not worth installing elevators just because of broken elevators or escalators in certain systems.  INSIST on maintenance!  The elevator in myapartment building works and has worked for ages - its because someone cares about it.  I would call into question the motives and values of the people budgeting for the installation of cheap, sh^tty elevators or for cutting crucial maintenance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is astounding how few people in the transportation community are at all in touch with the demographic crisis that is about to call our entire transportation system into question.  Of course I am talking about the Grey Boom.  We all like to complain or joke about elderly drivers, but they can&#8217;t come off the road if they have no alternative.  Just like the previous commenter noted ParaTransit services are very expensive and additionally are often uncoordinated in terms of an elderly person&#8217;s destination needs (think trips to doctors appointments, pharmacies, grocery stores etc. which may not be suitable for MediVan or ParaTransit).  We&#8217;ll need to make sure our existing systems are ready for this massive soon to be elderly cohort.</p>
<p>Futher &#8211; I live in Boston on the blue line which is currently undergoing a modernization.  I would argue that if it weren&#8217;t for the pressure to make the T more ADA compliant the blue line would still rotting away.  I&#8217;m sure we&#8217;d all love to see projects happen faster, easier, and cheaper but we can&#8217;t neglect members of our society that aren&#8217;t fully able.</p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t just the people in wheel chairs or with walking sticks that need elevators etc.  Its people with children, grocery bags, and people that are simply tired after a long days work.  Elevators and escalators are an amenity that attracts people to transit and away from their private autos.  I am personally sick of people at my work place saying &#8220;Oh, you can take transit because you are young&#8221; or &#8220;You don&#8217;t have a toddler in a stroller, so the stairs aren&#8217;t a bother to you.&#8221;</p>
<p>Lastly &#8211; DO NOT give in and say its not worth installing elevators just because of broken elevators or escalators in certain systems.  INSIST on maintenance!  The elevator in myapartment building works and has worked for ages &#8211; its because someone cares about it.  I would call into question the motives and values of the people budgeting for the installation of cheap, sh^tty elevators or for cutting crucial maintenance.</p>
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