Comments on: PATCO Looks to Increase Service to Philadelphia with New Station http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/05/26/patco-looks-to-increase-service-to-philadelphia-with-new-station/ Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:43:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: eldondre http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/05/26/patco-looks-to-increase-service-to-philadelphia-with-new-station/#comment-26996 eldondre Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:03:50 +0000 http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=2330#comment-26996 This station could serve the northern section of old city that is cut off by the bridge if there's a decent pedestrian connection to it. right now there is no such thing. The reopening of this stop is smaller news than fare unification, a Rittenhouse stop, and even the addition of faregates to the locust st side of the Walnut-Locust station. This station could serve the northern section of old city that is cut off by the bridge if there’s a decent pedestrian connection to it. right now there is no such thing. The reopening of this stop is smaller news than fare unification, a Rittenhouse stop, and even the addition of faregates to the locust st side of the Walnut-Locust station.

]]> By: Sandy Smith http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/05/26/patco-looks-to-increase-service-to-philadelphia-with-new-station/#comment-8068 Sandy Smith Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:43:14 +0000 http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=2330#comment-8068 Hey, thanks for linking and citing my Examiner article. I have one historical nit to pick: PATCO was not expanded in 1952 - the Bridge Line and Ridge Spur were, when the Locust Street subway was opened to its current terminus at 18th Street (last station: 15th-16th). The Philadelphia Transportation Company operated the Bridge Line for the Delaware River Joint Commission (1933-52)/Port Authority (1952-present), and Bridge Line rolling stock was fully compatible and interchangeable with Broad Street Subway stock -- the tunnels, tracks, and power supply are all built to the same specs, and Bridge Line cars were stored and maintained at the BSS' Fern Rock yard and shops. Work on the Lindenwold High-Speed Line began ~1965, and the line went into service in 1969. Hey, thanks for linking and citing my Examiner article. I have one historical nit to pick:

PATCO was not expanded in 1952 – the Bridge Line and Ridge Spur were, when the Locust Street subway was opened to its current terminus at 18th Street (last station: 15th-16th). The Philadelphia Transportation Company operated the Bridge Line for the Delaware River Joint Commission (1933-52)/Port Authority (1952-present), and Bridge Line rolling stock was fully compatible and interchangeable with Broad Street Subway stock — the tunnels, tracks, and power supply are all built to the same specs, and Bridge Line cars were stored and maintained at the BSS’ Fern Rock yard and shops.

Work on the Lindenwold High-Speed Line began ~1965, and the line went into service in 1969.

]]> By: newboldphilly http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/05/26/patco-looks-to-increase-service-to-philadelphia-with-new-station/#comment-5849 newboldphilly Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:11:26 +0000 http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=2330#comment-5849 6 blocks between stations on a subway isn't duplication. Most stops on the BSL are 5 blocks apart and in Center City they're 3 blocks apart. Same thing with the MFL. It's important to note, though, that the Franklin Square Station is in a sort of no man's land between Chinatown and Old City. It's not really that close to many destinations in Northern Liberties. On the other hand, Old City is a much different place than it was 30 years ago. The area between Market and Vine is full of condos, shops and restaurants. The Constitution Center pulls in a lot of visitors and the office market around there is a lot more robust than it has been in years past. I don't think PATCO will have any trouble picking up a few hundred daily boardings if they can advertise it well and if they market it as a convenient (and cheaper) way to get from Rittenhouse to Old City. The problem with the area in general isn't necessarily the bridge and the ramps. The Chinatown community, instead of focusing all of their energy on building north of Vine should look to all of the parking lots to their east. In order to bring 18+ hours a day of vitality to that immediate area there needs to be a better mix of retail, office and residential. Right now hardly anyone lives there save for the condos directly across 7th St. from the park. I think moving the Mint and knocking down that atrocious concrete slab of a building (that takes up the entire block) would help in that department a great deal. Bring the residential part of Old City right up to Independence Mall 6 blocks between stations on a subway isn’t duplication. Most stops on the BSL are 5 blocks apart and in Center City they’re 3 blocks apart. Same thing with the MFL.

It’s important to note, though, that the Franklin Square Station is in a sort of no man’s land between Chinatown and Old City. It’s not really that close to many destinations in Northern Liberties.

On the other hand, Old City is a much different place than it was 30 years ago. The area between Market and Vine is full of condos, shops and restaurants. The Constitution Center pulls in a lot of visitors and the office market around there is a lot more robust than it has been in years past.
I don’t think PATCO will have any trouble picking up a few hundred daily boardings if they can advertise it well and if they market it as a convenient (and cheaper) way to get from Rittenhouse to Old City.

The problem with the area in general isn’t necessarily the bridge and the ramps. The Chinatown community, instead of focusing all of their energy on building north of Vine should look to all of the parking lots to their east. In order to bring 18+ hours a day of vitality to that immediate area there needs to be a better mix of retail, office and residential. Right now hardly anyone lives there save for the condos directly across 7th St. from the park.

I think moving the Mint and knocking down that atrocious concrete slab of a building (that takes up the entire block) would help in that department a great deal. Bring the residential part of Old City right up to Independence Mall

]]> By: eldondre http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/05/26/patco-looks-to-increase-service-to-philadelphia-with-new-station/#comment-1354 eldondre Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:11:51 +0000 http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=2330#comment-1354 It's my understanding that the PATCO tunnel actually runs to 18th st, a rittenhouse stop would add some utility to the line for Philadelphians. this post also indicates that the PA side expension would add more utility if they simply extended the current PATCO tunnel rather than focus on a waterfront trolley. It’s my understanding that the PATCO tunnel actually runs to 18th st, a rittenhouse stop would add some utility to the line for Philadelphians. this post also indicates that the PA side expension would add more utility if they simply extended the current PATCO tunnel rather than focus on a waterfront trolley.

]]> By: Steve http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/05/26/patco-looks-to-increase-service-to-philadelphia-with-new-station/#comment-1353 Steve Wed, 27 May 2009 21:45:13 +0000 http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=2330#comment-1353 The problem with re-opening Spring Garden Station on the BRS is that there's nowhere to go in the area and not a lot of people live around there as yet despite the new residential developments. And yes, PATCO cars can operate on the Ridge line and vice versa. The specs for the lines haven't changed since they were built. Franklin Square - the station and the park - needs to be made more accessible. If indeed a station entrance is built on the south side of Race Street with something of a concourse ot make it easier to acces the park on foot, that would help matters termendously. The problem with re-opening Spring Garden Station on the BRS is that there’s nowhere to go in the area and not a lot of people live around there as yet despite the new residential developments.

And yes, PATCO cars can operate on the Ridge line and vice versa. The specs for the lines haven’t changed since they were built.

Franklin Square – the station and the park – needs to be made more accessible. If indeed a station entrance is built on the south side of Race Street with something of a concourse ot make it easier to acces the park on foot, that would help matters termendously.

]]> By: TLP http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/05/26/patco-looks-to-increase-service-to-philadelphia-with-new-station/#comment-1352 TLP Wed, 27 May 2009 15:52:11 +0000 http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=2330#comment-1352 @Ned: Both lines are standard guage and have similarly-sized cars. Both run from a third rail, though I don't know the actual specs and if the two systems are completely compatible. Though, since BSL trains used to run in the Locust tunnel, it probably wouldn't be too much trouble to put them back. @Ned: Both lines are standard guage and have similarly-sized cars. Both run from a third rail, though I don’t know the actual specs and if the two systems are completely compatible. Though, since BSL trains used to run in the Locust tunnel, it probably wouldn’t be too much trouble to put them back.

]]> By: Ned http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/05/26/patco-looks-to-increase-service-to-philadelphia-with-new-station/#comment-1351 Ned Wed, 27 May 2009 01:09:58 +0000 http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=2330#comment-1351 Sounds like a good plan but what about compatibility between the BSL and PATCO? For example, are the power sources the same, train dimensions the same, etc. Sounds like a good plan but what about compatibility between the BSL and PATCO? For example, are the power sources the same, train dimensions the same, etc.

]]> By: TLP http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/05/26/patco-looks-to-increase-service-to-philadelphia-with-new-station/#comment-1350 TLP Tue, 26 May 2009 16:29:17 +0000 http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=2330#comment-1350 It's an interesting idea, but I don't know how much extra ridership connecting the Ridge Spur back to Locust St would actually create. PATCO currently has stops at 12/13th and 15/16th on Locust Street -- The Broad Street Line has a stop at Broad (14th St) and Walnut/Locust Sts. The only extra destination the Spur really provides is 8th and Market, which you can also reach by transferring (free) from the BSL to the MFL. Both of these lines run much more often than the Ridge Spur, so the advantage of the short cut is minimal. Still, the idea of unifying the fares is a good one, and hopefully will happen eventually. It will take some political wrangling between SEPTA, PATCO, and NJT (they run the Riverline, the AC line, and potentially the new south jersey extension) but it can happen. It’s an interesting idea, but I don’t know how much extra ridership connecting the Ridge Spur back to Locust St would actually create. PATCO currently has stops at 12/13th and 15/16th on Locust Street — The Broad Street Line has a stop at Broad (14th St) and Walnut/Locust Sts. The only extra destination the Spur really provides is 8th and Market, which you can also reach by transferring (free) from the BSL to the MFL. Both of these lines run much more often than the Ridge Spur, so the advantage of the short cut is minimal.

Still, the idea of unifying the fares is a good one, and hopefully will happen eventually. It will take some political wrangling between SEPTA, PATCO, and NJT (they run the Riverline, the AC line, and potentially the new south jersey extension) but it can happen.

]]> By: jfruh http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/05/26/patco-looks-to-increase-service-to-philadelphia-with-new-station/#comment-1349 jfruh Tue, 26 May 2009 14:22:56 +0000 http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=2330#comment-1349 Reconnecting the BRS is a great idea, but I don't think you could do it without doing something that ought to be done anyway: creating a fare union between PATCO and SEPTA. Having to pay twice to switch lines in the urban core is just silly and is a barrier to transit use, and it makes shared stations between the two systems unworkable anyway. Heck add NJT's River Line, the new DMU light rail lines, and the improved Atlantic City line into the system as well. I realize that there would be the huge bureaucratic hurdles of rival agencies to overcome here, but surely it could be done? Reconnecting the BRS is a great idea, but I don’t think you could do it without doing something that ought to be done anyway: creating a fare union between PATCO and SEPTA. Having to pay twice to switch lines in the urban core is just silly and is a barrier to transit use, and it makes shared stations between the two systems unworkable anyway. Heck add NJT’s River Line, the new DMU light rail lines, and the improved Atlantic City line into the system as well. I realize that there would be the huge bureaucratic hurdles of rival agencies to overcome here, but surely it could be done?

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