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	<title>Comments on: Calgary-Edmonton Corridor Next Up for Train Improvements</title>
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	<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/07/21/calgary-edmonton-corridor-next-up-for-train-improvements/</link>
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		<title>By: Edmonton Driver</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/07/21/calgary-edmonton-corridor-next-up-for-train-improvements/#comment-105796</link>
		<dc:creator>Edmonton Driver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Nov 2010 17:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=2632#comment-105796</guid>
		<description>As an Edmonton resident who has driven this route hundreds of times (especially in the winter) I can honestly say that an alternate means of transportation is LONG overdue. Saving time is one thing, but safety is an entire other issue.

The distance element mentioned is certainly a consideration; the fact remains that is IS a manageable drive...but honestly too short to fly for most.

The challenge will indeed be marketing this to DRIVERS and not the FLYERS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an Edmonton resident who has driven this route hundreds of times (especially in the winter) I can honestly say that an alternate means of transportation is LONG overdue. Saving time is one thing, but safety is an entire other issue.</p>
<p>The distance element mentioned is certainly a consideration; the fact remains that is IS a manageable drive&#8230;but honestly too short to fly for most.</p>
<p>The challenge will indeed be marketing this to DRIVERS and not the FLYERS.</p>
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		<title>By: kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/07/21/calgary-edmonton-corridor-next-up-for-train-improvements/#comment-15656</link>
		<dc:creator>kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:46:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=2632#comment-15656</guid>
		<description>How has nobody mentioned the need for the HSR to have airport links in both cities?  Both have airports out of town close to where the line would run....it&#039;d be crazy not to link them up with this high speed line, to offer flexibility and possible code sharing with airlines.  Yes, downtown to downtown is extremely important, but intermodal passengers could account for much of the air travel and offer travelers more options, which is always a good thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How has nobody mentioned the need for the HSR to have airport links in both cities?  Both have airports out of town close to where the line would run&#8230;.it&#8217;d be crazy not to link them up with this high speed line, to offer flexibility and possible code sharing with airlines.  Yes, downtown to downtown is extremely important, but intermodal passengers could account for much of the air travel and offer travelers more options, which is always a good thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/07/21/calgary-edmonton-corridor-next-up-for-train-improvements/#comment-2057</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 19:21:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=2632#comment-2057</guid>
		<description>Guys, remember that Canada and the US are two different countries, which means that there&#039;s no competition for funds between Canadian and American HSR routes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guys, remember that Canada and the US are two different countries, which means that there&#8217;s no competition for funds between Canadian and American HSR routes.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Druker</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/07/21/calgary-edmonton-corridor-next-up-for-train-improvements/#comment-2071</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Druker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=2632#comment-2071</guid>
		<description>Is it really that helpful to say that other corridors that can&#039;t get their acts together are why Alberta can&#039;t have nice things?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it really that helpful to say that other corridors that can&#8217;t get their acts together are why Alberta can&#8217;t have nice things?</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Fisher</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/07/21/calgary-edmonton-corridor-next-up-for-train-improvements/#comment-2070</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Fisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=2632#comment-2070</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m supportive of high speed rail in Alberta, but I don&#039;t think something like the TGV is most appropriate at this time there. Using the existing CPR line for a service of 200-240 km/h would be more acceptable. Besides, if there&#039;s one place where the TGV would be more appropriate in Canada, it&#039;s Quebec City-Windsor, but not even as much as in California or the Northeast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m supportive of high speed rail in Alberta, but I don&#8217;t think something like the TGV is most appropriate at this time there. Using the existing CPR line for a service of 200-240 km/h would be more acceptable. Besides, if there&#8217;s one place where the TGV would be more appropriate in Canada, it&#8217;s Quebec City-Windsor, but not even as much as in California or the Northeast.</p>
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		<title>By: Adirondacker</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/07/21/calgary-edmonton-corridor-next-up-for-train-improvements/#comment-2069</link>
		<dc:creator>Adirondacker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 02:11:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=2632#comment-2069</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;There is no room on the tracks for another single daylight train out of NYC to D.C. Not one more train can be squeezed into the schedule.&lt;/em&gt;

There&#039;s plenty of room except between Newark and New York and then only during rush hour. Amtrak has chronic car shortages. They are probably more constrained by not having enough cars than they are by track capacity. South/West of Newark and North/East of the Sunnyside Yards in Queens there&#039;s plenty of capacity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>There is no room on the tracks for another single daylight train out of NYC to D.C. Not one more train can be squeezed into the schedule.</em></p>
<p>There&#8217;s plenty of room except between Newark and New York and then only during rush hour. Amtrak has chronic car shortages. They are probably more constrained by not having enough cars than they are by track capacity. South/West of Newark and North/East of the Sunnyside Yards in Queens there&#8217;s plenty of capacity.</p>
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		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/07/21/calgary-edmonton-corridor-next-up-for-train-improvements/#comment-2068</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=2632#comment-2068</guid>
		<description>Eli &amp; Orulz --
The reason fares are high on the Acelas is because the supply of seats is very limited. As a result, prices have risen to what the traffic will bear.

If Amtrak happens to make some money this way, fine. But in fact, the Acelas are full, even at the high prices, because the tracks are full. Completely full.

The Northeast Corridor carries the hourly Acelas, Regional trains, Keystones from NYC to Philly and on to Harrisburg, long distance trains heading off to Chicago, New Orleans, and Florida, as well as hundreds of commuter trains into four or five cities. There is no room on the tracks for another single daylight train out of NYC to D.C. Not one more train can be squeezed into the schedule.

The route from Boston to NYC is constrained by the numerous rivers, bays, and yacht basins along the New England Shore. Under maritime law, any ship or sailboat on a navigable waterway has a right of passage, so drawbridges must be opened at least every hour.

So Boston is limited to one Acela per hour. And D.C. too. Not one Acela every half hour. Not an Acela every 20 minutes. ONE per hour. And every one is full. The scarce seats are priced high because of they are, in effect., bid up

To get the Acelas, or their successors, up to a reasonable number of fast trains and available seats -- with what the British call a &quot;turn up and go&quot; frequency -- with added tracks, and new bridges, tunnels, and catenaries, as well as more equipment, will require as many billions of bucks as will raising the speed. If capacity is not greatly increased, but only the speed, then the tickets will cost even more thannow, and they will all be bought by the elite on expense accounts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eli &amp; Orulz &#8211;<br />
The reason fares are high on the Acelas is because the supply of seats is very limited. As a result, prices have risen to what the traffic will bear.</p>
<p>If Amtrak happens to make some money this way, fine. But in fact, the Acelas are full, even at the high prices, because the tracks are full. Completely full.</p>
<p>The Northeast Corridor carries the hourly Acelas, Regional trains, Keystones from NYC to Philly and on to Harrisburg, long distance trains heading off to Chicago, New Orleans, and Florida, as well as hundreds of commuter trains into four or five cities. There is no room on the tracks for another single daylight train out of NYC to D.C. Not one more train can be squeezed into the schedule.</p>
<p>The route from Boston to NYC is constrained by the numerous rivers, bays, and yacht basins along the New England Shore. Under maritime law, any ship or sailboat on a navigable waterway has a right of passage, so drawbridges must be opened at least every hour.</p>
<p>So Boston is limited to one Acela per hour. And D.C. too. Not one Acela every half hour. Not an Acela every 20 minutes. ONE per hour. And every one is full. The scarce seats are priced high because of they are, in effect., bid up</p>
<p>To get the Acelas, or their successors, up to a reasonable number of fast trains and available seats &#8212; with what the British call a &#8220;turn up and go&#8221; frequency &#8212; with added tracks, and new bridges, tunnels, and catenaries, as well as more equipment, will require as many billions of bucks as will raising the speed. If capacity is not greatly increased, but only the speed, then the tickets will cost even more thannow, and they will all be bought by the elite on expense accounts.</p>
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		<title>By: orulz</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/07/21/calgary-edmonton-corridor-next-up-for-train-improvements/#comment-2067</link>
		<dc:creator>orulz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:31:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=2632#comment-2067</guid>
		<description>I think Amtrak&#039;s current mandate requires it to set fares in order to maximize revenues rather than ridership. If its mandate were changed, they could then do whatever they want to undercut the airlines. Given that they operate with a pretty decent load factor, what reason do they have to lower fares? If the fares were $49 on the train, the acela would sell out way ahead of time, and they would not have any seats left for the high-price last minute travelers.

I&#039;ve always thought it would be a great if Amtrak could lengthen the acelas into 10 car trains, and bump up the frequency somewhat. That would increase supply, and thereby allow them to have lower prices.

If Amtrak no longer had a mandate to maximize revenue, they might also be able to eliminate fare &quot;buckets&quot; and charge the same price no matter when you buy your ticket. That is how trains in Japan and perhaps in Europe work. And ridership would go WAY up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Amtrak&#8217;s current mandate requires it to set fares in order to maximize revenues rather than ridership. If its mandate were changed, they could then do whatever they want to undercut the airlines. Given that they operate with a pretty decent load factor, what reason do they have to lower fares? If the fares were $49 on the train, the acela would sell out way ahead of time, and they would not have any seats left for the high-price last minute travelers.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always thought it would be a great if Amtrak could lengthen the acelas into 10 car trains, and bump up the frequency somewhat. That would increase supply, and thereby allow them to have lower prices.</p>
<p>If Amtrak no longer had a mandate to maximize revenue, they might also be able to eliminate fare &#8220;buckets&#8221; and charge the same price no matter when you buy your ticket. That is how trains in Japan and perhaps in Europe work. And ridership would go WAY up.</p>
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		<title>By: Eli</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/07/21/calgary-edmonton-corridor-next-up-for-train-improvements/#comment-2066</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=2632#comment-2066</guid>
		<description>The biggest problem with HSR is simply the price to customers. If I want to use the Acela to get from DC-New York it costs $99 with a one-month advanced ticket. I could fly for $49. How does anyone ever expect HSR to take a significant percentage of the market when it&#039;s so grossly overpriced?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The biggest problem with HSR is simply the price to customers. If I want to use the Acela to get from DC-New York it costs $99 with a one-month advanced ticket. I could fly for $49. How does anyone ever expect HSR to take a significant percentage of the market when it&#8217;s so grossly overpriced?</p>
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		<title>By: AL</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/07/21/calgary-edmonton-corridor-next-up-for-train-improvements/#comment-2065</link>
		<dc:creator>AL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:50:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetransportpolitic.com/?p=2632#comment-2065</guid>
		<description>There is substantial short-haul air traffic between the two cities, partly because international flights are more prevalent from Calgary than Edmonton.  There is also high business demand between the cities: Calgary has more head-office type work, Edmonton more manufacturing.  There are also two scheduled bus lines serving the market: Greyhound and Red Arrow; the conservative government avoids anything in direct competition with industry so this will be P3 or pivate if anything

I&#039;d like to see the government work to simply get a 100 km/h (minimum) diesel service between the cities up and running using existing infrastructure and new trainsets.  The trains should be spec&#039;d for higher runnning speeds available once the infrastructure upgrades permit it, for example using similar Talgo equipment to Washington state.  The initial frequent, reliable service will help build ridership but it will require operating subsidy.  However, the initial capital cost is perhaps 10-15% of the high speed options in the report and the service could be up and running in a fraction of the time.  Then new tracks with alignments capable of high speed can be gradually added, tied into the existing line, to incrementally lower the travel time. Eventually you should have trunk line Calgary to Edmonton that is electrified for TGV speeds, with continuing service over existing lines or new alignments to other destinations (Lethbridge, Canmore, etc) possibly at lower speeds.  The initial diesel powered equipment can be cascaded to these branches or to establish local commuter rail.

The high-speed rail seems to be viewed by the Alberta government as all-or-nothing.  They are not willing to fund &quot;all&quot;.  Hence we get nothing.  Basic service is needed as a start!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is substantial short-haul air traffic between the two cities, partly because international flights are more prevalent from Calgary than Edmonton.  There is also high business demand between the cities: Calgary has more head-office type work, Edmonton more manufacturing.  There are also two scheduled bus lines serving the market: Greyhound and Red Arrow; the conservative government avoids anything in direct competition with industry so this will be P3 or pivate if anything</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to see the government work to simply get a 100 km/h (minimum) diesel service between the cities up and running using existing infrastructure and new trainsets.  The trains should be spec&#8217;d for higher runnning speeds available once the infrastructure upgrades permit it, for example using similar Talgo equipment to Washington state.  The initial frequent, reliable service will help build ridership but it will require operating subsidy.  However, the initial capital cost is perhaps 10-15% of the high speed options in the report and the service could be up and running in a fraction of the time.  Then new tracks with alignments capable of high speed can be gradually added, tied into the existing line, to incrementally lower the travel time. Eventually you should have trunk line Calgary to Edmonton that is electrified for TGV speeds, with continuing service over existing lines or new alignments to other destinations (Lethbridge, Canmore, etc) possibly at lower speeds.  The initial diesel powered equipment can be cascaded to these branches or to establish local commuter rail.</p>
<p>The high-speed rail seems to be viewed by the Alberta government as all-or-nothing.  They are not willing to fund &#8220;all&#8221;.  Hence we get nothing.  Basic service is needed as a start!</p>
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