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	<title>Comments on: Los Angeles Regional Connector Stirs Controversy in Little Tokyo</title>
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	<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/20/los-angeles-regional-connector-stirs-controversy-in-little-tokyo/</link>
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		<title>By: bzcat</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/20/los-angeles-regional-connector-stirs-controversy-in-little-tokyo/#comment-5122</link>
		<dc:creator>bzcat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3595#comment-5122</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s good observation... the Santa Monica-Sierra Madre (Azusa?) alignment probably will see more transfers to CA-HSR too so perhaps that should be the preferred routing vs. Santa Monica-East LA (Whittier?) which will bypass Union Station and force Westside riders to transfer at 7th St Metrocenter. 

I think this is a valid question to ask Metro to clarify... I think the preliminary documents seems to suggest their preferred routing is the one I described rather than the one Jerard mentioned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s good observation&#8230; the Santa Monica-Sierra Madre (Azusa?) alignment probably will see more transfers to CA-HSR too so perhaps that should be the preferred routing vs. Santa Monica-East LA (Whittier?) which will bypass Union Station and force Westside riders to transfer at 7th St Metrocenter. </p>
<p>I think this is a valid question to ask Metro to clarify&#8230; I think the preliminary documents seems to suggest their preferred routing is the one I described rather than the one Jerard mentioned.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerard</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/20/los-angeles-regional-connector-stirs-controversy-in-little-tokyo/#comment-5031</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:52:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3595#comment-5031</guid>
		<description>To further this conversation thinking of Jarrett&#039;s previous response, the question we should be asking oursevles in planning these things is which lines REQUIRE a stop at Union Station in order to ensure high ridership? Instead of everyline going thorough Union Station when the demand really isn&#039;t there for it.

Personally, my bet is on running service like this;
A)Expo-Pasadena and
B) Long Beach-East LA. 

Because the Pasadena and Expo lines will need a transfer at Union Station to connect Metrolink riders to destinations along each route (Pasadena, USC, West LA and Santa Monica; when Expo is completed). The Long Beach-Eastside alignment I feel is more dependant on a connection at 7th Street Metro Center for the most ridership and may not see a lot of ridership towards Union Station.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To further this conversation thinking of Jarrett&#8217;s previous response, the question we should be asking oursevles in planning these things is which lines REQUIRE a stop at Union Station in order to ensure high ridership? Instead of everyline going thorough Union Station when the demand really isn&#8217;t there for it.</p>
<p>Personally, my bet is on running service like this;<br />
A)Expo-Pasadena and<br />
B) Long Beach-East LA. </p>
<p>Because the Pasadena and Expo lines will need a transfer at Union Station to connect Metrolink riders to destinations along each route (Pasadena, USC, West LA and Santa Monica; when Expo is completed). The Long Beach-Eastside alignment I feel is more dependant on a connection at 7th Street Metro Center for the most ridership and may not see a lot of ridership towards Union Station.</p>
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		<title>By: bzcat</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/20/los-angeles-regional-connector-stirs-controversy-in-little-tokyo/#comment-4845</link>
		<dc:creator>bzcat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:29:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3595#comment-4845</guid>
		<description>Jerard:

Yes, exactly what I was trying to say but in a much long winded way...

After completion of Downtown connector, at 7th St Metro Center, the Pasadena-Long Beach and East LA-Culver City train will indeed form an X pattern as Jarrett suggests. But for some reason, he thinks the &quot;X&quot; needs to be at Union Station. That&#039;s ok in theory... but in practice (and in planning for the future), the local transit movements converge in 7th St Metro Center. It&#039;s going to be much more important transfer node than Union Station.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jerard:</p>
<p>Yes, exactly what I was trying to say but in a much long winded way&#8230;</p>
<p>After completion of Downtown connector, at 7th St Metro Center, the Pasadena-Long Beach and East LA-Culver City train will indeed form an X pattern as Jarrett suggests. But for some reason, he thinks the &#8220;X&#8221; needs to be at Union Station. That&#8217;s ok in theory&#8230; but in practice (and in planning for the future), the local transit movements converge in 7th St Metro Center. It&#8217;s going to be much more important transfer node than Union Station.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerard</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/20/los-angeles-regional-connector-stirs-controversy-in-little-tokyo/#comment-4740</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3595#comment-4740</guid>
		<description>bzcat, 
That is a wonderful response to Jarrett because the one thing he&#039;s overlooking in the planning world is the ability to follow and connect to destinations that have the greatest use and potential for ridership. 

In Downtown LA the current and future rail lines follow a &quot;C shaped&quot; pattern. From the Civic Center to the South Park area down to either Figueroa or Broadway corridors. But look closely when the connector is built an X is formed at one central point,  7th Street/Metro Center. Thankfully that is where the X makes the most sense.

It would have been nice if the original Red Line subway had four tracks in it&#039;s Downtown portion to allow these trains to go through, but alas that wasn&#039;t the case. But this will still do the job quite well when it&#039;s all built.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bzcat,<br />
That is a wonderful response to Jarrett because the one thing he&#8217;s overlooking in the planning world is the ability to follow and connect to destinations that have the greatest use and potential for ridership. </p>
<p>In Downtown LA the current and future rail lines follow a &#8220;C shaped&#8221; pattern. From the Civic Center to the South Park area down to either Figueroa or Broadway corridors. But look closely when the connector is built an X is formed at one central point,  7th Street/Metro Center. Thankfully that is where the X makes the most sense.</p>
<p>It would have been nice if the original Red Line subway had four tracks in it&#8217;s Downtown portion to allow these trains to go through, but alas that wasn&#8217;t the case. But this will still do the job quite well when it&#8217;s all built.</p>
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		<title>By: bzcat</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/20/los-angeles-regional-connector-stirs-controversy-in-little-tokyo/#comment-4482</link>
		<dc:creator>bzcat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3595#comment-4482</guid>
		<description>Jarrett: I think the answer to your question is this - and this is from the perspective of a local LA transit user... not a transit planning guru ;) - There is basically very little demand for transit ridership from East LA to Union station so if Expo line runs from East LA to Culver City (or Whittier to Santa Monica one day) and bypassed Union Station, it is not a big deal.

And the reason it is not a big deal is because Expo line will intersect with the Red/Purple line subway at 7th St Metro Center... LA&#039;s de facto &quot;Penn Station&quot; if you consider Union Station to be our &quot;Grand Central&quot;. At 7th St Metro Center, the very few East LA riders that want to go to Union Station can change train and go &quot;backwards&quot;. The majority will either stay on Expo to Santa Monica, or they will transfer to the subway to either North Hollywood or Century City. 

Why isn&#039;t there demand for people from East LA to Union Station? Well, the fastest way to get to Pasadena from East LA is not through Downtown... This is the reason why Metro itself is projecting very low ridership for people raking the Gold line from East LA to Pasadena under the current configuration. Most people will board the trains from Pasadena or East LA and end their trip in Downtown. Granted in the future when CA-HSR is up and running, there may be more significant demand for East LA to Union Station but it is still going to be vastly out numbered by the East LA to West LA movements.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jarrett: I think the answer to your question is this &#8211; and this is from the perspective of a local LA transit user&#8230; not a transit planning guru ;) &#8211; There is basically very little demand for transit ridership from East LA to Union station so if Expo line runs from East LA to Culver City (or Whittier to Santa Monica one day) and bypassed Union Station, it is not a big deal.</p>
<p>And the reason it is not a big deal is because Expo line will intersect with the Red/Purple line subway at 7th St Metro Center&#8230; LA&#8217;s de facto &#8220;Penn Station&#8221; if you consider Union Station to be our &#8220;Grand Central&#8221;. At 7th St Metro Center, the very few East LA riders that want to go to Union Station can change train and go &#8220;backwards&#8221;. The majority will either stay on Expo to Santa Monica, or they will transfer to the subway to either North Hollywood or Century City. </p>
<p>Why isn&#8217;t there demand for people from East LA to Union Station? Well, the fastest way to get to Pasadena from East LA is not through Downtown&#8230; This is the reason why Metro itself is projecting very low ridership for people raking the Gold line from East LA to Pasadena under the current configuration. Most people will board the trains from Pasadena or East LA and end their trip in Downtown. Granted in the future when CA-HSR is up and running, there may be more significant demand for East LA to Union Station but it is still going to be vastly out numbered by the East LA to West LA movements.</p>
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		<title>By: AlexB</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/20/los-angeles-regional-connector-stirs-controversy-in-little-tokyo/#comment-4420</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3595#comment-4420</guid>
		<description>LA&#039;s downtown is mainly the Civic Center and Pershing Square areas.  Union Station is a bit peripheral to the buisiness center (from what I remember of the little time I&#039;ve spent there.)  If you are going for an &quot;X&quot; routing, all three routes would pass through these areas.  Only one route, Expo-East LA would require a transfer to get to Union Station.  Is it really that big of a deal?  It&#039;s not like everyone from Culver City going downtown is transferring to/from Metrolink.  The red and purple lines as well as the Pasadena-Long Beach line would still hit Union Station.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LA&#8217;s downtown is mainly the Civic Center and Pershing Square areas.  Union Station is a bit peripheral to the buisiness center (from what I remember of the little time I&#8217;ve spent there.)  If you are going for an &#8220;X&#8221; routing, all three routes would pass through these areas.  Only one route, Expo-East LA would require a transfer to get to Union Station.  Is it really that big of a deal?  It&#8217;s not like everyone from Culver City going downtown is transferring to/from Metrolink.  The red and purple lines as well as the Pasadena-Long Beach line would still hit Union Station.</p>
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		<title>By: Jarrett at HumanTransit.org</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/20/los-angeles-regional-connector-stirs-controversy-in-little-tokyo/#comment-4390</link>
		<dc:creator>Jarrett at HumanTransit.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3595#comment-4390</guid>
		<description>Overhead Wire.  Yes, exactly the same issue.  Branching disspates frequency, but too often it looks like the good solution on the map, especially to politicians who don&#039;t understand frequency but do understand that people don&#039;t like to transfer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Overhead Wire.  Yes, exactly the same issue.  Branching disspates frequency, but too often it looks like the good solution on the map, especially to politicians who don&#8217;t understand frequency but do understand that people don&#8217;t like to transfer.</p>
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		<title>By: Jarrett at HumanTransit.org</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/20/los-angeles-regional-connector-stirs-controversy-in-little-tokyo/#comment-4389</link>
		<dc:creator>Jarrett at HumanTransit.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3595#comment-4389</guid>
		<description>Yonah.  Yes, for an example of exactly the situation you describe, see Rose Quarter station in Portland.  Not ideal with luggage, but the best they could do with the money at the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yonah.  Yes, for an example of exactly the situation you describe, see Rose Quarter station in Portland.  Not ideal with luggage, but the best they could do with the money at the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Yonah Freemark</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/20/los-angeles-regional-connector-stirs-controversy-in-little-tokyo/#comment-4384</link>
		<dc:creator>Yonah Freemark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3595#comment-4384</guid>
		<description>Jarrett -
The northern routing, via Temple, wouldn&#039;t allow Blue Line trains to stop at Little Tokyo -- they&#039;d go north to Union Station without stopping, whereas Expo line trains would continue south to Little Tokyo. So that&#039;s not an advantage of the at-grade route.

I think it makes sense to see the Gold Line keep running for the reasons you pointed out -- that people need to be able to transfer. L.A.&#039;s existing frequencies on the Gold Line are relatively low, so this isn&#039;t technically impossible -- you could have 2 Expo or Blue and then 1 Gold every ten minutes (18 trains/hour). But the real question is whether ridership will stand up. L.A.&#039;s transit system probably needs to mature and expand before it makes sense to keep the Gold Line running at high frequencies -- and that might happen by the time this thing opens in 2017.

I do wonder, though, if this problem could be solved simply by adding a stop south of Little Tokyo for Expo Line trains if the X formation is used and the Gold Line is canceled. Riders would simply have to walk around the corner to the Blue Line stop, and voila, transfer between the lines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jarrett -<br />
The northern routing, via Temple, wouldn&#8217;t allow Blue Line trains to stop at Little Tokyo &#8212; they&#8217;d go north to Union Station without stopping, whereas Expo line trains would continue south to Little Tokyo. So that&#8217;s not an advantage of the at-grade route.</p>
<p>I think it makes sense to see the Gold Line keep running for the reasons you pointed out &#8212; that people need to be able to transfer. L.A.&#8217;s existing frequencies on the Gold Line are relatively low, so this isn&#8217;t technically impossible &#8212; you could have 2 Expo or Blue and then 1 Gold every ten minutes (18 trains/hour). But the real question is whether ridership will stand up. L.A.&#8217;s transit system probably needs to mature and expand before it makes sense to keep the Gold Line running at high frequencies &#8212; and that might happen by the time this thing opens in 2017.</p>
<p>I do wonder, though, if this problem could be solved simply by adding a stop south of Little Tokyo for Expo Line trains if the X formation is used and the Gold Line is canceled. Riders would simply have to walk around the corner to the Blue Line stop, and voila, transfer between the lines.</p>
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		<title>By: The Overhead Wire</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/20/los-angeles-regional-connector-stirs-controversy-in-little-tokyo/#comment-4378</link>
		<dc:creator>The Overhead Wire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 08:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3595#comment-4378</guid>
		<description>Jarrett I&#039;m trying to follow this but it really needs pictures.  If I understand this correctly, it seems to be the same issue that Oakland has with its turn off to Freemont.  Really all of the trains should have gone through Oakland 12th street then turned off instead of turning off earlier to go to Lake Merritt.  That way you would have had the same amount of trains going through Oakland that go through downtown San Francisco instead of half the amount.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jarrett I&#8217;m trying to follow this but it really needs pictures.  If I understand this correctly, it seems to be the same issue that Oakland has with its turn off to Freemont.  Really all of the trains should have gone through Oakland 12th street then turned off instead of turning off earlier to go to Lake Merritt.  That way you would have had the same amount of trains going through Oakland that go through downtown San Francisco instead of half the amount.</p>
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