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	<title>Comments on: Villaraigosa Campaigns for Westside Subway&#8217;s Completion in Ten Years</title>
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	<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/21/villaraigosa-campaigns-for-westside-subways-completion-in-ten-years/</link>
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		<title>By: Leary Beglan</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/21/villaraigosa-campaigns-for-westside-subways-completion-in-ten-years/#comment-31443</link>
		<dc:creator>Leary Beglan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 18:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3615#comment-31443</guid>
		<description>I agree, but don&#039;t forget &quot;The Green Line to LAX&quot;, too. Just like the South Bay&#039;s local &#039;Daily Breeze&#039; newspaper says about its news coverage area: &quot;From LAX To L.A. Harbor&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, but don&#8217;t forget &#8220;The Green Line to LAX&#8221;, too. Just like the South Bay&#8217;s local &#8216;Daily Breeze&#8217; newspaper says about its news coverage area: &#8220;From LAX To L.A. Harbor&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: ArtMedina</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/21/villaraigosa-campaigns-for-westside-subways-completion-in-ten-years/#comment-31439</link>
		<dc:creator>ArtMedina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 17:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3615#comment-31439</guid>
		<description>I fully encourage the &quot;Subway To The Sea&quot;! Since I live in San Pedro, I also encourage extending the &quot;Green Line To The Green Bridge&quot;. The &#039;Green Bridge&#039; I mean is The Vincent Thomas Bridge here in San Pedro. Let&#039;s lace the L.A. Area with rail transit, both subway and light-rail!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fully encourage the &#8220;Subway To The Sea&#8221;! Since I live in San Pedro, I also encourage extending the &#8220;Green Line To The Green Bridge&#8221;. The &#8216;Green Bridge&#8217; I mean is The Vincent Thomas Bridge here in San Pedro. Let&#8217;s lace the L.A. Area with rail transit, both subway and light-rail!</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Wentzel</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/21/villaraigosa-campaigns-for-westside-subways-completion-in-ten-years/#comment-4995</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Wentzel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3615#comment-4995</guid>
		<description>&quot;In looking at the map, I think the Expo line should be extended to the Wilshire &amp; 4th Purple/Pink station. It seems ridiculous to me to have have these two lines terminate a half mile apart instead of allowing easy transfers between the two.&quot;

---------------------

The planned terminus of the Expo Line is in a great location, near the &quot;Promendae&quot; and the Santa Monica Pier and the civic center area.  As an above ground, light-rail project, there would be no natural way to extend it to 4th/Wilshire.

Actually, as someone who lived in Santa Monica, I suggested the reverse.  That the Purple/Pink terminal be where the Expo Line ends in a grand Coney Island type station.

Moving the West Hollywood branch up to Phase 4 was the right decision and I hope that Metro commits to building at least the first four phases in my lifetime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In looking at the map, I think the Expo line should be extended to the Wilshire &amp; 4th Purple/Pink station. It seems ridiculous to me to have have these two lines terminate a half mile apart instead of allowing easy transfers between the two.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>The planned terminus of the Expo Line is in a great location, near the &#8220;Promendae&#8221; and the Santa Monica Pier and the civic center area.  As an above ground, light-rail project, there would be no natural way to extend it to 4th/Wilshire.</p>
<p>Actually, as someone who lived in Santa Monica, I suggested the reverse.  That the Purple/Pink terminal be where the Expo Line ends in a grand Coney Island type station.</p>
<p>Moving the West Hollywood branch up to Phase 4 was the right decision and I hope that Metro commits to building at least the first four phases in my lifetime.</p>
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		<title>By: Jarrett at HumanTransit.org</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/21/villaraigosa-campaigns-for-westside-subways-completion-in-ten-years/#comment-4687</link>
		<dc:creator>Jarrett at HumanTransit.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 06:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3615#comment-4687</guid>
		<description>Alon.  Yes, I agree that it makes sense to go just west of 405 so that you can push some of the access impacts out of Westwood proper.  Remember though that UCLA is a colossal transit destination.  Any bus coming from the west is going to flow on through Westwood to the campus, even if it connects west of 405 as well.  The other issue is that Brentwood and the Palisades will generate a lot of Kiss-and-Ride, and it&#039;s a big win for all sides if those cars don&#039;t have to cross 405 to get to a rail station.

Wad&#039;s right that the Pink Line has a much bigger payoff than doing the last few miles into Santa Monica.  

General principle:  When your proposed line has an outermost segment that&#039;s weaker than the rest, and you don&#039;t have a compelling region-wide interest in building that segment (e.g. to make an important connection in the network) you might as well put that city on the spot.  Tell them that if they want the line to get to them, they&#039;ll have to add enough density so that their segment pencils out.   That&#039;s what I call empowering local government.  I hope similar conversations are happening around proposed Gold Line extension east of Pasadena.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alon.  Yes, I agree that it makes sense to go just west of 405 so that you can push some of the access impacts out of Westwood proper.  Remember though that UCLA is a colossal transit destination.  Any bus coming from the west is going to flow on through Westwood to the campus, even if it connects west of 405 as well.  The other issue is that Brentwood and the Palisades will generate a lot of Kiss-and-Ride, and it&#8217;s a big win for all sides if those cars don&#8217;t have to cross 405 to get to a rail station.</p>
<p>Wad&#8217;s right that the Pink Line has a much bigger payoff than doing the last few miles into Santa Monica.  </p>
<p>General principle:  When your proposed line has an outermost segment that&#8217;s weaker than the rest, and you don&#8217;t have a compelling region-wide interest in building that segment (e.g. to make an important connection in the network) you might as well put that city on the spot.  Tell them that if they want the line to get to them, they&#8217;ll have to add enough density so that their segment pencils out.   That&#8217;s what I call empowering local government.  I hope similar conversations are happening around proposed Gold Line extension east of Pasadena.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/21/villaraigosa-campaigns-for-westside-subways-completion-in-ten-years/#comment-4670</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 04:15:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3615#comment-4670</guid>
		<description>In looking at the map, I think the Expo line should be extended to the Wilshire &amp; 4th Purple/Pink station. It seems ridiculous to me to have have these two lines terminate a half mile apart instead of allowing easy transfers between the two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In looking at the map, I think the Expo line should be extended to the Wilshire &amp; 4th Purple/Pink station. It seems ridiculous to me to have have these two lines terminate a half mile apart instead of allowing easy transfers between the two.</p>
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		<title>By: Wad</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/21/villaraigosa-campaigns-for-westside-subways-completion-in-ten-years/#comment-4662</link>
		<dc:creator>Wad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 03:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3615#comment-4662</guid>
		<description>Alon Levy wrote:

&lt;i&gt;What it will do is distribute traffic among multiple stations, instead of have people from Santa Monica ride buses to the Westwood terminus and saturate the station’s turnstiles and passageways.&lt;/i&gt;

This is primarily why Metro is planning on adding a west-of-405 station to what would have been the end of the line at Westwood. Since it is central to UCLA, the Federal Building, the Westwood business district of high-rise offices on Wilshire and the retail district of Westwood Village, the expected passenger flow may exceed the physical capacity of the station. The operational constraints of the subway are maximum headways of 90 seconds for signals and platform capacity of a train of six 75-foot cars, so this is probably the passenger capacity of a certain level of demand.

As you&#039;ve said, the natural boundary is the sea, but Metro is projecting this as the last MOS. The gold-medal option of $9 billion includes the &quot;Pink Line,&quot; the branch through West Hollywood. That leapfrogged the west-of-405-Santa Monica MOS to be fourth priority -- even though it was a late addition.

For the same tunneling distance, the West Hollywood branch is likely to produce more boardings than a west-of-405 extension. Also, the windward side of the 405 won&#039;t be rail-poor; the Expo Line will open by about 2015-2016. West of the 405, the subway and the Expo right-of-way run closer together -- close enough that two rail lines may split the difference among passengers and end up reducing productivity on both lines.

This does not eliminate the subway&#039;s merit, though. Wilshire is still a dense, attractive corridor up until Bundy Drive. In Santa Monica, it becomes a low-rise auto-oriented linear corridor, albeit surrounded by medium-to-high density housing. Santa Monica&#039;s central business district is not in downtown but near its eastern edge. Expo will take care of this.

Santa Monica primarily employs low- and medium-wage services and professional careers, so it&#039;ll draw from people using transit already. Santa Monica is also a very important tourist and recreation destination, so it&#039;ll produce robust weekend and holiday ridership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alon Levy wrote:</p>
<p><i>What it will do is distribute traffic among multiple stations, instead of have people from Santa Monica ride buses to the Westwood terminus and saturate the station’s turnstiles and passageways.</i></p>
<p>This is primarily why Metro is planning on adding a west-of-405 station to what would have been the end of the line at Westwood. Since it is central to UCLA, the Federal Building, the Westwood business district of high-rise offices on Wilshire and the retail district of Westwood Village, the expected passenger flow may exceed the physical capacity of the station. The operational constraints of the subway are maximum headways of 90 seconds for signals and platform capacity of a train of six 75-foot cars, so this is probably the passenger capacity of a certain level of demand.</p>
<p>As you&#8217;ve said, the natural boundary is the sea, but Metro is projecting this as the last MOS. The gold-medal option of $9 billion includes the &#8220;Pink Line,&#8221; the branch through West Hollywood. That leapfrogged the west-of-405-Santa Monica MOS to be fourth priority &#8212; even though it was a late addition.</p>
<p>For the same tunneling distance, the West Hollywood branch is likely to produce more boardings than a west-of-405 extension. Also, the windward side of the 405 won&#8217;t be rail-poor; the Expo Line will open by about 2015-2016. West of the 405, the subway and the Expo right-of-way run closer together &#8212; close enough that two rail lines may split the difference among passengers and end up reducing productivity on both lines.</p>
<p>This does not eliminate the subway&#8217;s merit, though. Wilshire is still a dense, attractive corridor up until Bundy Drive. In Santa Monica, it becomes a low-rise auto-oriented linear corridor, albeit surrounded by medium-to-high density housing. Santa Monica&#8217;s central business district is not in downtown but near its eastern edge. Expo will take care of this.</p>
<p>Santa Monica primarily employs low- and medium-wage services and professional careers, so it&#8217;ll draw from people using transit already. Santa Monica is also a very important tourist and recreation destination, so it&#8217;ll produce robust weekend and holiday ridership.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/21/villaraigosa-campaigns-for-westside-subways-completion-in-ten-years/#comment-4603</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 19:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3615#comment-4603</guid>
		<description>Jarrett, you could argue this the other way: terminating a line at a high-demand area before its natural endpoint can cause congestion at the terminus; this is because people further down the road would take buses to just one station, leading to an excessive number of boardings.

To some extent New York has this issue with all lines that stop before they hit water or the city line. On one line, the 7, the terminus is the busiest station in the Outer Boroughs as well as the busiest with fewer than 4 tracks, and is about as crowded as you&#039;d expect. The lines whose termini aren&#039;t so crowded are those that terminate a few stops beyond the main traffic generators. For example, the E/J/Z terminates one stop after Jamaica Station, splitting traffic between Jamaica Station for passengers from the LIRR and the terminus for bus riders from Eastern Queens. Together the two stations have the same ridership as the 7&#039;s terminus, but they&#039;re less overcrowded.

Returning to Los Angeles, the natural terminus of the subway to the sea is the sea. Santa Monica won&#039;t generate the same traffic as Westwood, but once the line to Westwood is there, the Santa Monica extension will also cost less. What it will do is distribute traffic among multiple stations, instead of have people from Santa Monica ride buses to the Westwood terminus and saturate the station&#039;s turnstiles and passageways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jarrett, you could argue this the other way: terminating a line at a high-demand area before its natural endpoint can cause congestion at the terminus; this is because people further down the road would take buses to just one station, leading to an excessive number of boardings.</p>
<p>To some extent New York has this issue with all lines that stop before they hit water or the city line. On one line, the 7, the terminus is the busiest station in the Outer Boroughs as well as the busiest with fewer than 4 tracks, and is about as crowded as you&#8217;d expect. The lines whose termini aren&#8217;t so crowded are those that terminate a few stops beyond the main traffic generators. For example, the E/J/Z terminates one stop after Jamaica Station, splitting traffic between Jamaica Station for passengers from the LIRR and the terminus for bus riders from Eastern Queens. Together the two stations have the same ridership as the 7&#8217;s terminus, but they&#8217;re less overcrowded.</p>
<p>Returning to Los Angeles, the natural terminus of the subway to the sea is the sea. Santa Monica won&#8217;t generate the same traffic as Westwood, but once the line to Westwood is there, the Santa Monica extension will also cost less. What it will do is distribute traffic among multiple stations, instead of have people from Santa Monica ride buses to the Westwood terminus and saturate the station&#8217;s turnstiles and passageways.</p>
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		<title>By: Jarrett at HumanTransit.org</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/21/villaraigosa-campaigns-for-westside-subways-completion-in-ten-years/#comment-4563</link>
		<dc:creator>Jarrett at HumanTransit.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:09:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3615#comment-4563</guid>
		<description>Just to be clear, I&#039;m well aware of the density and diversity of Santa Monica, but it&#039;s not on the scale of Westwood+UCLA+Century City and I doubt it wants to be.  My point is that end-of-line locations need to be especially large concentrations of demand  if you want even high usage of a line all the way to the end, which is crucial in making such an expensive project pencil out.  Wad, yes, I&#039;d agree that pushing just past 405 for an MOS is logical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to be clear, I&#8217;m well aware of the density and diversity of Santa Monica, but it&#8217;s not on the scale of Westwood+UCLA+Century City and I doubt it wants to be.  My point is that end-of-line locations need to be especially large concentrations of demand  if you want even high usage of a line all the way to the end, which is crucial in making such an expensive project pencil out.  Wad, yes, I&#8217;d agree that pushing just past 405 for an MOS is logical.</p>
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		<title>By: Wad</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/21/villaraigosa-campaigns-for-westside-subways-completion-in-ten-years/#comment-4542</link>
		<dc:creator>Wad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3615#comment-4542</guid>
		<description>Jarrett wrote:

&lt;i&gt;A line of this magnitude needs a really strong western anchor — a bit mass of density and activity — and that’s really Westwood+UCLA.&lt;/i&gt;

At a recent round of community meetings, Metro representatives said they are anticipating such a high level of activity at Westwood that it would need to go west of I-405 as part of the minimum operable segment. It may either be the VA Hospital campus or even a mile west of that at Barrington Avenue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jarrett wrote:</p>
<p><i>A line of this magnitude needs a really strong western anchor — a bit mass of density and activity — and that’s really Westwood+UCLA.</i></p>
<p>At a recent round of community meetings, Metro representatives said they are anticipating such a high level of activity at Westwood that it would need to go west of I-405 as part of the minimum operable segment. It may either be the VA Hospital campus or even a mile west of that at Barrington Avenue.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/08/21/villaraigosa-campaigns-for-westside-subways-completion-in-ten-years/#comment-4530</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 07:07:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3615#comment-4530</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;How much does it cost to drill under Willshire as opposed to Second Avenue?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I believe Wilshire is $300,000,000 per mile. Second Avenue is $2,000,000,000 per mile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>How much does it cost to drill under Willshire as opposed to Second Avenue?</p></blockquote>
<p>I believe Wilshire is $300,000,000 per mile. Second Avenue is $2,000,000,000 per mile.</p>
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