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	<title>Comments on: Chicago Olympics May Depend on Better Transit &#8211; But Where&#8217;s the Commitment?</title>
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	<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/09/10/chicago-olympics-may-depend-on-better-transit-but-wheres-the-commitment/</link>
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		<title>By: Jerard</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/09/10/chicago-olympics-may-depend-on-better-transit-but-wheres-the-commitment/#comment-9823</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 03:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3845#comment-9823</guid>
		<description>Chicago really didn&#039;t have anything concrete and fixing up that IC corridor wouldn&#039;t have guaranteed Chicago the bid anyways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chicago really didn&#8217;t have anything concrete and fixing up that IC corridor wouldn&#8217;t have guaranteed Chicago the bid anyways.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerard</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/09/10/chicago-olympics-may-depend-on-better-transit-but-wheres-the-commitment/#comment-9821</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 03:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3845#comment-9821</guid>
		<description>Which is the key reason why Rio was going to win it, because of the World Cup they will be doing 2 years earlier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which is the key reason why Rio was going to win it, because of the World Cup they will be doing 2 years earlier.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Payne</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/09/10/chicago-olympics-may-depend-on-better-transit-but-wheres-the-commitment/#comment-9765</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Payne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 12:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3845#comment-9765</guid>
		<description>I think a least part of the reason for Chicago&#039;s loss of the 2016 Olympics was the glaring lack of any kind of firm and viable transit plans.

Purposely vague references to &quot;shuttle bus&quot; service, and &quot;closed roadway lanes&quot; is all that was offered by the 2016 bid committee.

Yet even after the IOC visited Chicago to check out all the venues and facilities (and had to have seen with their own eyes the 4 track Metra Electric Division commuter rail line interlacing all the Lakefront sites; and probably wondered why the bid committee made little or no reference to it, when it should have been one of the most promoted features), the bid committee continued to promote a purposely undefined &quot;shuttle bus&quot; / &quot;closed lane&quot; transportation system.


Proposed Red, Yellow, and Orange Line extensions are all many, many miles from the Lakefront and would have done nothing for inter-venue transit. 


Many South Side individuals and Community Organizations have lobbied the 2016 bid committee for years to include the CTA Gold Line/Gray Line plans to convert the Electric line to operate as part of the CTA in the bid proposals; but from personal experience they were largely ignored.

I now believe the idea of a &quot;legacy of transit improvements&quot; for the SE Side was the old donkey-stick-carrot trick by da&#039; mayor, and the 2016 bid committee.


There will NEVER be any (rail) transit improvements to the SE Lakefront Corridor now, as CTA and Metra would rather DIE and BURN IN HELL FOREVER to protect their fiefdoms, rather then work together to improve transit conditions for the people there.


Hyde Park will have [Star Trek Transporter] service before there is a Gold/Gray Line.  


So sad...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a least part of the reason for Chicago&#8217;s loss of the 2016 Olympics was the glaring lack of any kind of firm and viable transit plans.</p>
<p>Purposely vague references to &#8220;shuttle bus&#8221; service, and &#8220;closed roadway lanes&#8221; is all that was offered by the 2016 bid committee.</p>
<p>Yet even after the IOC visited Chicago to check out all the venues and facilities (and had to have seen with their own eyes the 4 track Metra Electric Division commuter rail line interlacing all the Lakefront sites; and probably wondered why the bid committee made little or no reference to it, when it should have been one of the most promoted features), the bid committee continued to promote a purposely undefined &#8220;shuttle bus&#8221; / &#8220;closed lane&#8221; transportation system.</p>
<p>Proposed Red, Yellow, and Orange Line extensions are all many, many miles from the Lakefront and would have done nothing for inter-venue transit. </p>
<p>Many South Side individuals and Community Organizations have lobbied the 2016 bid committee for years to include the CTA Gold Line/Gray Line plans to convert the Electric line to operate as part of the CTA in the bid proposals; but from personal experience they were largely ignored.</p>
<p>I now believe the idea of a &#8220;legacy of transit improvements&#8221; for the SE Side was the old donkey-stick-carrot trick by da&#8217; mayor, and the 2016 bid committee.</p>
<p>There will NEVER be any (rail) transit improvements to the SE Lakefront Corridor now, as CTA and Metra would rather DIE and BURN IN HELL FOREVER to protect their fiefdoms, rather then work together to improve transit conditions for the people there.</p>
<p>Hyde Park will have [Star Trek Transporter] service before there is a Gold/Gray Line.  </p>
<p>So sad&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Workman</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/09/10/chicago-olympics-may-depend-on-better-transit-but-wheres-the-commitment/#comment-9025</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Workman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3845#comment-9025</guid>
		<description>&quot;event in a &lt;strike&gt;second-world city&lt;/strike&gt; in a developing country like Rio.&quot;

As opposed to Chicago, a first-world has been city in a country working hard to get back to the third world.

Sorry, but when I think about experiences going through Atlanta and Chicago, I can&#039;t help but think about how little our country wishes to spend on building infrastructure that works. Your reminder about the fleet of yellow school buses brought a chuckle however, and all I could think was about how insulting it must be to put international visitors in a wold class event into yellow prison buses designed for children. Reeks of saying, welcome to our cheap country. We won&#039;t build greatness for our citizens, so why should be build it for you foreign infidels.

Sorry about the rant, but we in Amerika have problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;event in a <strike>second-world city</strike> in a developing country like Rio.&#8221;</p>
<p>As opposed to Chicago, a first-world has been city in a country working hard to get back to the third world.</p>
<p>Sorry, but when I think about experiences going through Atlanta and Chicago, I can&#8217;t help but think about how little our country wishes to spend on building infrastructure that works. Your reminder about the fleet of yellow school buses brought a chuckle however, and all I could think was about how insulting it must be to put international visitors in a wold class event into yellow prison buses designed for children. Reeks of saying, welcome to our cheap country. We won&#8217;t build greatness for our citizens, so why should be build it for you foreign infidels.</p>
<p>Sorry about the rant, but we in Amerika have problems.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Payne</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/09/10/chicago-olympics-may-depend-on-better-transit-but-wheres-the-commitment/#comment-9018</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Payne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3845#comment-9018</guid>
		<description>For at least 13 years there have been plans to convert the Metra Electric to operate as part of the CTA as the &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.grayline.20m.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;CTA Gray Line&lt;/A&gt;, now referred to as the Gold Line. This plan to improve the South Side economic condition was created many, many years before the Olympics were even thought of.

Even the IOC noted that there were no 
concrete plans for rail service between the venues by the 2016 committee, just vague references to using &quot;existing infrastructure&quot;.

The Electric District runs within footsteps of all the South Lakefront venues, and it is a 4-track Class I Railroad; not a miniature train like CTA&#039;s el (able to carry a much higher per hour passenger load). 

When the IOC say&#039;s Metra will carry 2/3 of the rail passengers during the event,
do they mean carrying large numbers of people from the suburbs into the city; or do they mean the Electric District carrying event participants along the Lakefront between venues?

To construct a new CTA type rail line along the Metra Lakefront alignment would cost 1 to 2 billion dollars, which no one is going to spend for a 2 week event; even with leaving a legacy for the South Side communities.

Using the Metra Electric to provide service between the Lakefront Olympic venues will NOT work without fare and service integration with adjacent CTA rail and bus services.

Due to FRA/FTA regulations, new rail lines using CTA type trains cannot operate in common or on adjacent ROW to Class I trains; so CTA type trains could not run on the 2 center Electric District tracks (even with conversion to 3rd rail) right next to Metra trains.

If the IOC was looking among other things for real rail plans, than we&#039;ve already blown it.

It would cost less than $200 MILLION (not billion) to convert part of the Electric District to operate as the Gold line/Gray Line (the Gold Line utilizes only the Metra South Chicago Branch, the Gray Line uses the entire South Side in-city Metra service).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For at least 13 years there have been plans to convert the Metra Electric to operate as part of the CTA as the <a HREF="http://www.grayline.20m.com" rel="nofollow">CTA Gray Line</a>, now referred to as the Gold Line. This plan to improve the South Side economic condition was created many, many years before the Olympics were even thought of.</p>
<p>Even the IOC noted that there were no<br />
concrete plans for rail service between the venues by the 2016 committee, just vague references to using &#8220;existing infrastructure&#8221;.</p>
<p>The Electric District runs within footsteps of all the South Lakefront venues, and it is a 4-track Class I Railroad; not a miniature train like CTA&#8217;s el (able to carry a much higher per hour passenger load). </p>
<p>When the IOC say&#8217;s Metra will carry 2/3 of the rail passengers during the event,<br />
do they mean carrying large numbers of people from the suburbs into the city; or do they mean the Electric District carrying event participants along the Lakefront between venues?</p>
<p>To construct a new CTA type rail line along the Metra Lakefront alignment would cost 1 to 2 billion dollars, which no one is going to spend for a 2 week event; even with leaving a legacy for the South Side communities.</p>
<p>Using the Metra Electric to provide service between the Lakefront Olympic venues will NOT work without fare and service integration with adjacent CTA rail and bus services.</p>
<p>Due to FRA/FTA regulations, new rail lines using CTA type trains cannot operate in common or on adjacent ROW to Class I trains; so CTA type trains could not run on the 2 center Electric District tracks (even with conversion to 3rd rail) right next to Metra trains.</p>
<p>If the IOC was looking among other things for real rail plans, than we&#8217;ve already blown it.</p>
<p>It would cost less than $200 MILLION (not billion) to convert part of the Electric District to operate as the Gold line/Gray Line (the Gold Line utilizes only the Metra South Chicago Branch, the Gray Line uses the entire South Side in-city Metra service).</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/09/10/chicago-olympics-may-depend-on-better-transit-but-wheres-the-commitment/#comment-7789</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3845#comment-7789</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure what APTA is doing. In New York, the MTA &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mta.info/nyct/facts/ridership/index.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;says&lt;/a&gt; that,

&lt;blockquote&gt;Subway ridership consists of all passengers (other than NYC Transit employees) who enter the subway system, including passengers who transfer from buses.  Ridership does not include passengers who exit the subway or passengers who transfer from other subway lines, with the exception of out-of-system transfers; e.g., between the Lexington Avenue/63rd Street station and the Lexington Avenue/59th Street station, where customers use their MetroCard to make the transfer.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

There are only two such out-of-system transfers - the one given in the quote, and one between Court Square on the G and Court House Square on the 7.

I&#039;m not sure how APTA&#039;s methodology got a ridership level of 1.9 billion for New York. You&#039;d have to ask them, but I&#039;m guessing that they either extrapolated some transfer ratio, or surveyed ridership on each train to get a total ridership for each line and then added all the totals together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure what APTA is doing. In New York, the MTA <a href="http://www.mta.info/nyct/facts/ridership/index.htm" rel="nofollow">says</a> that,</p>
<blockquote><p>Subway ridership consists of all passengers (other than NYC Transit employees) who enter the subway system, including passengers who transfer from buses.  Ridership does not include passengers who exit the subway or passengers who transfer from other subway lines, with the exception of out-of-system transfers; e.g., between the Lexington Avenue/63rd Street station and the Lexington Avenue/59th Street station, where customers use their MetroCard to make the transfer.</p></blockquote>
<p>There are only two such out-of-system transfers &#8211; the one given in the quote, and one between Court Square on the G and Court House Square on the 7.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure how APTA&#8217;s methodology got a ridership level of 1.9 billion for New York. You&#8217;d have to ask them, but I&#8217;m guessing that they either extrapolated some transfer ratio, or surveyed ridership on each train to get a total ridership for each line and then added all the totals together.</p>
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		<title>By: DBX</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/09/10/chicago-olympics-may-depend-on-better-transit-but-wheres-the-commitment/#comment-7680</link>
		<dc:creator>DBX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 05:51:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3845#comment-7680</guid>
		<description>Certainly not, Alon, on the buses, where in 2006 they switched to a new method of calculating ridership that substantially upped the number.  With Oyster, they can, and do, count each boarding separately.

As for rail -- where as you note TfL&#039;s ridership is by trip, not per train (adding up the lines separately yields about 1.3 billion, rather than the slightly over 1.1 billion that&#039;s quoted systemwide) -- I have a question for you with regard to US data, that I want you to answer complete with source:

I had always understood measurement by boarding to be each pass through a fare barrier.  For buses, that of course produces an unlinked trip.  For any fare-barrier-equipped heavy rail system, however, it does not unless passengers must go through barriers to change trains.  Even a system that records exits like Washington DC can&#039;t automatically see the middle segment of a rail-rail-rail trip.  So what&#039;s going on here?  Measurement by boarding, in which case fare-barrier controlled journeys on heavy rail aren&#039;t strictly &quot;unlinked&quot;?  Or extrapolation of barrier-controlled journeys on an arbitrary ratio (APTA estimates about 10 to 30 percent of transit riders transfer en route, depending on the agency).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Certainly not, Alon, on the buses, where in 2006 they switched to a new method of calculating ridership that substantially upped the number.  With Oyster, they can, and do, count each boarding separately.</p>
<p>As for rail &#8212; where as you note TfL&#8217;s ridership is by trip, not per train (adding up the lines separately yields about 1.3 billion, rather than the slightly over 1.1 billion that&#8217;s quoted systemwide) &#8212; I have a question for you with regard to US data, that I want you to answer complete with source:</p>
<p>I had always understood measurement by boarding to be each pass through a fare barrier.  For buses, that of course produces an unlinked trip.  For any fare-barrier-equipped heavy rail system, however, it does not unless passengers must go through barriers to change trains.  Even a system that records exits like Washington DC can&#8217;t automatically see the middle segment of a rail-rail-rail trip.  So what&#8217;s going on here?  Measurement by boarding, in which case fare-barrier controlled journeys on heavy rail aren&#8217;t strictly &#8220;unlinked&#8221;?  Or extrapolation of barrier-controlled journeys on an arbitrary ratio (APTA estimates about 10 to 30 percent of transit riders transfer en route, depending on the agency).</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/09/10/chicago-olympics-may-depend-on-better-transit-but-wheres-the-commitment/#comment-7660</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 01:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3845#comment-7660</guid>
		<description>TfL counts a trip with transfers on the same operator as one trip. This is different from APTA, which counts transfers separately even within the same mode. The data would only be comparable if TfL counted transfers from one Underground or NR line to another as two trips.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TfL counts a trip with transfers on the same operator as one trip. This is different from APTA, which counts transfers separately even within the same mode. The data would only be comparable if TfL counted transfers from one Underground or NR line to another as two trips.</p>
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		<title>By: DBX</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/09/10/chicago-olympics-may-depend-on-better-transit-but-wheres-the-commitment/#comment-7644</link>
		<dc:creator>DBX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 22:31:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3845#comment-7644</guid>
		<description>Alon, London breaks journeys down so that a bus trip followed by a rail is a separate trip.  TfL data are broken down by mode and by operator, providing separate numbers for Underground, Overground, buses, Docklands Light Railway, National Rail etc, hence, inherently unlinked data.  I see no difference in how TfL data are calculated from how APTA data are calculated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alon, London breaks journeys down so that a bus trip followed by a rail is a separate trip.  TfL data are broken down by mode and by operator, providing separate numbers for Underground, Overground, buses, Docklands Light Railway, National Rail etc, hence, inherently unlinked data.  I see no difference in how TfL data are calculated from how APTA data are calculated.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/09/10/chicago-olympics-may-depend-on-better-transit-but-wheres-the-commitment/#comment-7624</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=3845#comment-7624</guid>
		<description>DBX, the APTA uses unlinked trips. That means that if you take the 1 to Times Square, switch to the shuttle, and then take the 6, it counts as three trips instead of one. If you count linked trips, which is how every public transportation operator does it, then New York&#039;s subway ridership is 1.66 billion per year, not 2.2 billion. If you add PATH, LIRR, MNRR, and NJT ridership, you get 2 billion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DBX, the APTA uses unlinked trips. That means that if you take the 1 to Times Square, switch to the shuttle, and then take the 6, it counts as three trips instead of one. If you count linked trips, which is how every public transportation operator does it, then New York&#8217;s subway ridership is 1.66 billion per year, not 2.2 billion. If you add PATH, LIRR, MNRR, and NJT ridership, you get 2 billion.</p>
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