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	<title>Comments on: Finding the Funding for Metro to Dulles Airport</title>
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	<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/10/02/finding-the-funding-for-metro-to-dulles-airport/</link>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/10/02/finding-the-funding-for-metro-to-dulles-airport/#comment-260893</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jul 2011 17:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4139#comment-260893</guid>
		<description>The Silver Line is crucial to growth in Loudoun and will be good for the county especially Sterling area. They need to find a way to pay for it and make it happen. It&#039;s time!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Silver Line is crucial to growth in Loudoun and will be good for the county especially Sterling area. They need to find a way to pay for it and make it happen. It&#8217;s time!</p>
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		<title>By: UK Airport Person</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/10/02/finding-the-funding-for-metro-to-dulles-airport/#comment-41535</link>
		<dc:creator>UK Airport Person</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2010 10:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4139#comment-41535</guid>
		<description>Local Governments and airports seem to be obsessed with gaining train / metro links. If you think you have problems, in the UK the &#039;crossrail&#039; project (the main benefit of which is sugeested to be fast links from East and West of London to Heathrow) is going to cause chaos in and around London during the construction (distruction!), will not be ready for the Olympics and will cost £15.9bn (that&#039;s 15.9 thousand million pounds). Will it ever pay back? I dount it. Ho hum !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Local Governments and airports seem to be obsessed with gaining train / metro links. If you think you have problems, in the UK the &#8216;crossrail&#8217; project (the main benefit of which is sugeested to be fast links from East and West of London to Heathrow) is going to cause chaos in and around London during the construction (distruction!), will not be ready for the Olympics and will cost £15.9bn (that&#8217;s 15.9 thousand million pounds). Will it ever pay back? I dount it. Ho hum !</p>
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		<title>By: Stan (Where's my Georgetown Metro?)</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/10/02/finding-the-funding-for-metro-to-dulles-airport/#comment-16939</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan (Where's my Georgetown Metro?)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4139#comment-16939</guid>
		<description>The only reason the Wiehle Avenue station in Reston was included in Phase 1 is because that was the only way to get funds from the Toll Road, which by law can only be spent on improvements to the Toll Road corridor.  A project that only affected Tysons would not count.

The Toll Road funds are vital because they are expected to pay for the majority of the project, and cover any and all of the inevitable cost overruns.  It is the only revenue source that can be increased without political red tape and essentially without limit, since drivers have few alternatives and no say in the level of tolling.  The phrase &quot;self-imposed taxation&quot; doesn&#039;t really apply here.  Tolls will also probably be used in perpetuity to provide the necessary subsidy to operate the line once built.

The Dulles connection is projected to draw very few riders and will provide a slower connection than an express bus due to the number of stations between the airport and Falls Church / downtown.
I question the wisdom of building this line rather than spending the money on improving Metro&#039;s existing infrastructure, which is suffering problems with crowding and safety.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only reason the Wiehle Avenue station in Reston was included in Phase 1 is because that was the only way to get funds from the Toll Road, which by law can only be spent on improvements to the Toll Road corridor.  A project that only affected Tysons would not count.</p>
<p>The Toll Road funds are vital because they are expected to pay for the majority of the project, and cover any and all of the inevitable cost overruns.  It is the only revenue source that can be increased without political red tape and essentially without limit, since drivers have few alternatives and no say in the level of tolling.  The phrase &#8220;self-imposed taxation&#8221; doesn&#8217;t really apply here.  Tolls will also probably be used in perpetuity to provide the necessary subsidy to operate the line once built.</p>
<p>The Dulles connection is projected to draw very few riders and will provide a slower connection than an express bus due to the number of stations between the airport and Falls Church / downtown.<br />
I question the wisdom of building this line rather than spending the money on improving Metro&#8217;s existing infrastructure, which is suffering problems with crowding and safety.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/10/02/finding-the-funding-for-metro-to-dulles-airport/#comment-10027</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 07:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4139#comment-10027</guid>
		<description>Sorry, I thought you were talking about the R6 Norristown...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, I thought you were talking about the R6 Norristown&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Adirondacker12800</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/10/02/finding-the-funding-for-metro-to-dulles-airport/#comment-10013</link>
		<dc:creator>Adirondacker12800</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 04:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4139#comment-10013</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;The Norristown Line is regional rail.&lt;em&gt;

Then why is it Route 100 like the trolley routes 101 and 102 instead of being R9 like the regional lines R1 R2 etc? 

&lt;em&gt; It’s signaled as regional rail&lt;/em&gt; 

or it&#039;s signaled like the subway and the el. 

&lt;em&gt; it runs regional rail rolling stock&lt;/em&gt;

They don&#039;t run Silverliners on it, nor do they run trolley cars on it. They run Norristown High Speed Line odd hybrid of subway car and interurban trolley car, cars. As single cars or two car sets. 

&lt;em&gt;and it’s run by the Regional Rail division&lt;/em&gt;

Some years. Other years SEPTA calls it Light Rail. 

What does any of that have to do with the Norristown HIgh Speed Line running locals, limiteds and expresses on a two track system that looks like an LRV metro system from one point of view and a commuter line from a different one? 

&lt;em&gt;Chicago’s Purple Line has a weekday ridership of 10,000, and runs express on a four-track line rather than a two-track line.&lt;em&gt; 

The El in Chicago is a metro. They run express trains. Along with Tokyo, Seoul and New York. 

&lt;em&gt;For Washington to emulate it would be very expensive due to the need to dig four tracks instead of two, while adding little ridership.&lt;/em&gt;

Being expensive to run express trains in metro Washington doesn&#039;t make the Purple Line in Chicago stop at all the stations the Red Line does. Or make the Hughes Park Express stop at Penfield or the Norristown Express stop at Haverford.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>The Norristown Line is regional rail.</em><em></p>
<p>Then why is it Route 100 like the trolley routes 101 and 102 instead of being R9 like the regional lines R1 R2 etc? </p>
<p></em><em> It’s signaled as regional rail</em> </p>
<p>or it&#8217;s signaled like the subway and the el. </p>
<p><em> it runs regional rail rolling stock</em></p>
<p>They don&#8217;t run Silverliners on it, nor do they run trolley cars on it. They run Norristown High Speed Line odd hybrid of subway car and interurban trolley car, cars. As single cars or two car sets. </p>
<p><em>and it’s run by the Regional Rail division</em></p>
<p>Some years. Other years SEPTA calls it Light Rail. </p>
<p>What does any of that have to do with the Norristown HIgh Speed Line running locals, limiteds and expresses on a two track system that looks like an LRV metro system from one point of view and a commuter line from a different one? </p>
<p><em>Chicago’s Purple Line has a weekday ridership of 10,000, and runs express on a four-track line rather than a two-track line.</em><em> </p>
<p>The El in Chicago is a metro. They run express trains. Along with Tokyo, Seoul and New York. </p>
<p></em><em>For Washington to emulate it would be very expensive due to the need to dig four tracks instead of two, while adding little ridership.</em></p>
<p>Being expensive to run express trains in metro Washington doesn&#8217;t make the Purple Line in Chicago stop at all the stations the Red Line does. Or make the Hughes Park Express stop at Penfield or the Norristown Express stop at Haverford.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/10/02/finding-the-funding-for-metro-to-dulles-airport/#comment-9981</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4139#comment-9981</guid>
		<description>The Norristown Line is regional rail. It&#039;s signaled as regional rail, it runs regional rail rolling stock, and it&#039;s run by the Regional Rail division.

Chicago&#039;s Purple Line has a weekday ridership of 10,000, and runs express on a four-track line rather than a two-track line. For Washington to emulate it would be very expensive due to the need to dig four tracks instead of two, while adding little ridership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Norristown Line is regional rail. It&#8217;s signaled as regional rail, it runs regional rail rolling stock, and it&#8217;s run by the Regional Rail division.</p>
<p>Chicago&#8217;s Purple Line has a weekday ridership of 10,000, and runs express on a four-track line rather than a two-track line. For Washington to emulate it would be very expensive due to the need to dig four tracks instead of two, while adding little ridership.</p>
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		<title>By: Adirondacker12800</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/10/02/finding-the-funding-for-metro-to-dulles-airport/#comment-9972</link>
		<dc:creator>Adirondacker12800</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 20:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4139#comment-9972</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Tried and true? Why, is there any metro system outside Tokyo that runs local and express trains on the same set of tracks? Or any metro system outside Tokyo, New York, and Seoul that runs local and express trains at all&lt;/em&gt;

Chicago. Inbound to the Loop in the morning, outbound from the Loop in the evening. Think Flushing line.... There&#039;s places in Chicago where the suburban/interurbans ran on the same El as the local trains. They&#039;ve let the track deteriorate, can&#039;t run trains on them any more. Norristown line in Philadelphia is either light rail on steroids or commuter rail using  interurbans. That has local and express service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Tried and true? Why, is there any metro system outside Tokyo that runs local and express trains on the same set of tracks? Or any metro system outside Tokyo, New York, and Seoul that runs local and express trains at all</em></p>
<p>Chicago. Inbound to the Loop in the morning, outbound from the Loop in the evening. Think Flushing line&#8230;. There&#8217;s places in Chicago where the suburban/interurbans ran on the same El as the local trains. They&#8217;ve let the track deteriorate, can&#8217;t run trains on them any more. Norristown line in Philadelphia is either light rail on steroids or commuter rail using  interurbans. That has local and express service.</p>
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		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/10/02/finding-the-funding-for-metro-to-dulles-airport/#comment-9946</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4139#comment-9946</guid>
		<description>The fact that the Silver Line is one of the most expensive projects in the US is indicative of the US having too few ambitious projects.

Sorry. That&#039;s what he said. I lost it trying to get it in italic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that the Silver Line is one of the most expensive projects in the US is indicative of the US having too few ambitious projects.</p>
<p>Sorry. That&#8217;s what he said. I lost it trying to get it in italic.</p>
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		<title>By: Woody</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/10/02/finding-the-funding-for-metro-to-dulles-airport/#comment-9945</link>
		<dc:creator>Woody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 14:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4139#comment-9945</guid>
		<description>AlexB says, 

So true. The biggest reasons, of course, are the small pot of money from Congress and the effective per-project cap. 

On the huge projects like the LIRR&#039;s East Side Access or the Second Avenue Subway, or even Pittsburgh&#039;s tunnel under the Allegheny River iirc, the federal share tops out well under the 80% standard for highways projects. So spending $12 or $15 billion for Boston&#039;s Big Dig roadway, that&#039;s no problem, but don&#039;t dare try that with rail.

Since Ronald Reagan and the Ayn Rand cult came to power, America&#039;s transit policy has been, in a phrase, &quot;think small.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AlexB says, </p>
<p>So true. The biggest reasons, of course, are the small pot of money from Congress and the effective per-project cap. </p>
<p>On the huge projects like the LIRR&#8217;s East Side Access or the Second Avenue Subway, or even Pittsburgh&#8217;s tunnel under the Allegheny River iirc, the federal share tops out well under the 80% standard for highways projects. So spending $12 or $15 billion for Boston&#8217;s Big Dig roadway, that&#8217;s no problem, but don&#8217;t dare try that with rail.</p>
<p>Since Ronald Reagan and the Ayn Rand cult came to power, America&#8217;s transit policy has been, in a phrase, &#8220;think small.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: AlexB</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/10/02/finding-the-funding-for-metro-to-dulles-airport/#comment-9942</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 14:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4139#comment-9942</guid>
		<description>Most cities divide their express and local services into local and more commuter oriented services, such as the Paris Metro and the RER.  When you think about it, the Rockaway branches on the A should have just continued to be LIRR and use the Rockaway cutoff, with a transfer to the A somewhere.  I am sure they would be much happier now.  But that has nothing to do with the Silver Line.  

Looking at google maps, it seems like you would have to build about 4 miles of mostly elevated track on I-66 to bypass 4 stops.  I am not sure the extra couple minutes everyone would save would be worth the that expense.  Is the DC metro big enough to justify express-local type service?  Are there that many stops to skip? It does connect to MARC and the VRE at various points that could provide express type service to Union Station.  I am reminded of Baltimore&#039;s proposal to build a sort of metro-esque type service into its commuter train system that would connect with light rail expansions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most cities divide their express and local services into local and more commuter oriented services, such as the Paris Metro and the RER.  When you think about it, the Rockaway branches on the A should have just continued to be LIRR and use the Rockaway cutoff, with a transfer to the A somewhere.  I am sure they would be much happier now.  But that has nothing to do with the Silver Line.  </p>
<p>Looking at google maps, it seems like you would have to build about 4 miles of mostly elevated track on I-66 to bypass 4 stops.  I am not sure the extra couple minutes everyone would save would be worth the that expense.  Is the DC metro big enough to justify express-local type service?  Are there that many stops to skip? It does connect to MARC and the VRE at various points that could provide express type service to Union Station.  I am reminded of Baltimore&#8217;s proposal to build a sort of metro-esque type service into its commuter train system that would connect with light rail expansions.</p>
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