Comments on: Washington Promotes Massive New Streetcar Project

By: Mary Piner

Mary Piner — Wed, 18 Aug 2010 03:22:28 +0000

It is remarkable and so impressive that DC is returning to the streetcars. I’ll visit and ride them until I’m content. I just wish Richmond would follow your thinking. I live there and the busses are smelly.

By: Ocean Railroader

Ocean Railroader — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 01:36:54 +0000

They need to have a local streetcar system in Leesburg Virginia and they need to consder linking up the purple line light rail into the streetcar system along with the new light rail line along Interstate 270. Those two light rail lines should be linked into the streetcar system.

By: Matt Fisher

Matt Fisher — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:07:46 +0000

I think the streetcar going to Takoma should go to Silver Spring. Logically, this is more appropriate. Why aren’t they doing this?

And 14th Street and 7th Street should both have streetcars.

By: Ocean Railroader

Ocean Railroader — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 00:17:24 +0000

In Richmond VA they are planning to clear a some major streets lanes by starting up Bus only lanes down the centers of several major streets in Richmond. They also talked about how that if ridership keeps going up on the lanes that do become bus only they will then turn them into streetcar and light rail only lanes. Washingtion should try to do something with streetcar only lanes consdering a streetcar could carry two to three more times more people then a regular bus.

By: Nathanael

Nathanael — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:36:32 +0000

Did they ever repeal the DC law which prohibited overhead wires west of the Anacostia River?

Anyway, agreed with everyone:

Diesel buses attract fewer riders than electric streetcars due to rider preference (up to 20% more)

– but a bus with full bus lane enforcement is better than a streetcar in a shared lane, because reliable not-delayed-by-traffic service attracts more riders than delayed-by-traffic service, and from what I’ve read that difference can be *more than* 20%.

Probably providing exclusive streetcar lanes everywhere is the way to go in DC, with its superwide boulevards. Failure to provide exclusive lanes is just political laziness, as Jarrett points out.

And they will need longer-than-one-car trains.

By: jim

jim — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:20:11 +0000

Here’s a picture of a real one. The DC streetcars are being manufactured in the Czech Republic. The first two have been completed, but not shipped to DC since the rails to run them on haven’t yet been laid (project management at its finest), so they’re still in the Czech Republic and are periodically being exercised.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rllayman/2439398690/

By: AlexB

AlexB — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 12:59:33 +0000

@jim, that streetcar looks like the real deal. I was confused because someone brought up vintage streetcars for some reason. I’d love to have that in my neighborhood and would definitely choose it over a bus.

@Fritz, you choose the Metro over the bus when they are both going to the place you need to go. This makes total sense and won’t change. It seems to me that people will use this streetcar system to go places the Metro doesn’t go or will use the streetcar to transfer to/from the Metro. In that sense, I think the routes of the system are more important than the speed.

By: M1EK

M1EK — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 12:47:06 +0000

The rail bias question has always been polluted by the fact that the streetcar service being compared to bus service was NEVER exactly the same except for the vehicle – there were always other differences (Portland has some reserved guideway, for instance).

The SLUT is a disaster in Seattle – has come to a crashing halt many times due to running in a shared lane. And, Alon, Houston’s ridership figures blow them out of the water – not even close, and a much larger chunk of Houston’s light rail riders are ‘new’, i.e., not just bus riders put on a new vehicle.

By: Jarrett at HumanTransit.org

Jarrett at HumanTransit.org — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:23:35 +0000

Well, this comment thread looks familiar. If anyone really wants to read more pages of these arguments, check out the category “Streetcars/Trams” at HumanTransit.org.

But this jumped out at me from Yonah’s piece:

Streetcars will operate in mostly mixed traffic … That’s not a recipe for success, but it certainly will allow the city to build more miles for less money.

Surely you mean: it will allow the city to build more miles without the political costs of reducting private vehicle capacity.

Paint is cheap.

By: Alon Levy

Alon Levy — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 04:12:45 +0000

However, all things being equal, I believe that more choice riders would rather ride on the rails than a bus. These two modalities are not the same and many people do not see them as equally pleasant (or unpleasant) and there is just no getting around that.

If you compare slow buses to slightly less slow streetcars, rail bias increases streetcar ridership by about 20%. Electric buses are about halfway between diesel buses and streetcars. However, those numbers have never been tested for more advanced service, with signal priority, off-board fare collection, and dedicated lanes.

Electric buses have the advantage that they eliminate the economic justice issues of diesel buses such as endemic asthma near bus depots. So for the same amount of money, it should work better to electrify the major bus lines and depots rather than construct streetcars from scratch. The Portland model of segregating services by technology has failed to improve transportation for people who don’t live near streetcars; on the contrary, bus riders there complain about being treated as second-class transit users, and bus ridership has kept dwindling since the light rail lines opened.