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	<title>Comments on: Privatization in the UK Breaks Down, Putting Neoliberal Ideology Into Question</title>
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	<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/</link>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/#comment-15786</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:48:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4565#comment-15786</guid>
		<description>Also it&#039;s worth noting that privately-run streetcars and urban railroads -- which often continued to be extremely popular even after public roads were paved to subsidize cars -- generally suffered from municipal price controls, and were unable to raise prices even enough to keep up with inflation.  This left them with insufficient money to even maintain their systems.  Eventually the systems were taken over by the municipalities.

This was actually the stated *INTENT* of refusing to allow them to increase fares in the case of New York City, but it seems to have been more of an accident in some other cases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also it&#8217;s worth noting that privately-run streetcars and urban railroads &#8212; which often continued to be extremely popular even after public roads were paved to subsidize cars &#8212; generally suffered from municipal price controls, and were unable to raise prices even enough to keep up with inflation.  This left them with insufficient money to even maintain their systems.  Eventually the systems were taken over by the municipalities.</p>
<p>This was actually the stated *INTENT* of refusing to allow them to increase fares in the case of New York City, but it seems to have been more of an accident in some other cases.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/#comment-15785</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4565#comment-15785</guid>
		<description>&quot;To me the history shows that you need to get the basic structure right by giving each party an incentive to do what will result in the best total outcome. I think that does not require the rail industry to be all public or all private but it probably does require the Government to have a clear idea of what that outcome should look like.&quot;

Hell yeah.

&quot;Why don’t private rail companies succeed? It does’t make sense. &quot;
Government-subsidized competition.  If all the better-than-dirt roads were private toll roads paying for *all* their own costs, private passenger railroads would be quite successful and profitable, and this was proven in the 19th century.

We seem to have come to a consensus in most countries that transportation is a public good, and that government should therefore fund roads, airports, etc.  In most countries they include rail in that; only in the US and a few others does it get disparate treatment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;To me the history shows that you need to get the basic structure right by giving each party an incentive to do what will result in the best total outcome. I think that does not require the rail industry to be all public or all private but it probably does require the Government to have a clear idea of what that outcome should look like.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hell yeah.</p>
<p>&#8220;Why don’t private rail companies succeed? It does’t make sense. &#8221;<br />
Government-subsidized competition.  If all the better-than-dirt roads were private toll roads paying for *all* their own costs, private passenger railroads would be quite successful and profitable, and this was proven in the 19th century.</p>
<p>We seem to have come to a consensus in most countries that transportation is a public good, and that government should therefore fund roads, airports, etc.  In most countries they include rail in that; only in the US and a few others does it get disparate treatment.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/#comment-15660</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4565#comment-15660</guid>
		<description>Pullman and the St. Louis Car Company both delivered defective subway cars to New York, which sued them into bankruptcy. The problem was that by the 1970s there weren&#039;t a lot of train manufacturers left in the US, and Buy American provisions and federal regulations of buses and trains reduced the amount of competition among manufacturers further.

The rail carriers were burdened with legacy costs and could not by law abandon underperforming lines without getting ICC approval. They couldn&#039;t even merge without an approval process, which often took years. The PRR and NYC wanted to merge in 1958; with governmental red tape, they merged in 1967. The railroads that had enough freight business to subsidize money-losing passenger rail, like ATSF or Seaboard, survived until Amtrak took over the money-losing part. The ones that didn&#039;t, like the PRR, went bankrupt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pullman and the St. Louis Car Company both delivered defective subway cars to New York, which sued them into bankruptcy. The problem was that by the 1970s there weren&#8217;t a lot of train manufacturers left in the US, and Buy American provisions and federal regulations of buses and trains reduced the amount of competition among manufacturers further.</p>
<p>The rail carriers were burdened with legacy costs and could not by law abandon underperforming lines without getting ICC approval. They couldn&#8217;t even merge without an approval process, which often took years. The PRR and NYC wanted to merge in 1958; with governmental red tape, they merged in 1967. The railroads that had enough freight business to subsidize money-losing passenger rail, like ATSF or Seaboard, survived until Amtrak took over the money-losing part. The ones that didn&#8217;t, like the PRR, went bankrupt.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/#comment-15658</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4565#comment-15658</guid>
		<description>Why don&#039;t private rail companies succeed? It does&#039;t make sense. Obviously they&#039;d need help for upstart costs from the government because the Infrastructure costs so much but... What about all the old private rail companies in the United States? Pullman and all that. There was no public rail company until AmTrak. Why did it work then, but not now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why don&#8217;t private rail companies succeed? It does&#8217;t make sense. Obviously they&#8217;d need help for upstart costs from the government because the Infrastructure costs so much but&#8230; What about all the old private rail companies in the United States? Pullman and all that. There was no public rail company until AmTrak. Why did it work then, but not now?</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/#comment-15541</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4565#comment-15541</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Airline deregulation has allowed for a large number of airlines to run continuously on the brink of bankruptcy, and a large number of airline bailouts. Even the “low cost airlines” routinely go bankrupt. Warren Buffett famously said that if the Wright Brothers’ plane had been shot down, it would have saved investors a fortune.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Southwest and Jetblue haven&#039;t gone bankrupt, and neither have Easyjet and Ryanair. They may do so in the future, though - even before deregulation, airlines were marginally profitable. For example, Howard Hughes needed his Hollywood money to fund his aviation hobby.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Airline deregulation has allowed for a large number of airlines to run continuously on the brink of bankruptcy, and a large number of airline bailouts. Even the “low cost airlines” routinely go bankrupt. Warren Buffett famously said that if the Wright Brothers’ plane had been shot down, it would have saved investors a fortune.</p></blockquote>
<p>Southwest and Jetblue haven&#8217;t gone bankrupt, and neither have Easyjet and Ryanair. They may do so in the future, though &#8211; even before deregulation, airlines were marginally profitable. For example, Howard Hughes needed his Hollywood money to fund his aviation hobby.</p>
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		<title>By: Cameron Slick</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/#comment-15524</link>
		<dc:creator>Cameron Slick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4565#comment-15524</guid>
		<description>We could have saved high-quality, 1930&#039;s style High Speed Rail in this country if in the late 50&#039;s we provided private railroads with a subsidy to keep their tracks in good shape to maintain fast speeds are reasonable, quality service. By the mid-1960&#039;s, to some fault of their own, many passenger railroads in the midwest were in degrading shape, and the newly completed freeways made it so much less attractive to take the train. Giving a minor subsidy to the railroads then would have cost a lot less than Amtrak.

The Big Government company Amtrak by the way, has a better on-time performance than any airline and has the least bit of hassle when it comes to refunds, frequent traveler points, and cheaper cocktails.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We could have saved high-quality, 1930&#8217;s style High Speed Rail in this country if in the late 50&#8217;s we provided private railroads with a subsidy to keep their tracks in good shape to maintain fast speeds are reasonable, quality service. By the mid-1960&#8217;s, to some fault of their own, many passenger railroads in the midwest were in degrading shape, and the newly completed freeways made it so much less attractive to take the train. Giving a minor subsidy to the railroads then would have cost a lot less than Amtrak.</p>
<p>The Big Government company Amtrak by the way, has a better on-time performance than any airline and has the least bit of hassle when it comes to refunds, frequent traveler points, and cheaper cocktails.</p>
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		<title>By: AlexB</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/#comment-15522</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4565#comment-15522</guid>
		<description>Many commenters have hit upon the main problem with this post already: it seems to be reaching for a pre-determined conclusion.  It reads as an opinion piece disguised at information.  I don&#039;t really disagree with the point, but I think it would have been much more helpful had it simply analyzed different transportation organizational types, each with a different level of privatisation.  The best point of the post was that the public should share the profits as well as the losses with the rail operators.  

I think the underlying argument for privatisation is that the pursuit of profit will streamline a company.  The money will go to the most efficient places, especially if there is competition.  If the demand for the service is too low and the cost of the infrastructure is too high, no company can do a good job and will eventually need to be bailed out.

The argument for public operation is that a well and properly funded agency with good management can accomplish amazing things.  Intelligence and money are not exactly always aligned in the government.  More often than not, a government bureacrat&#039;s main job is not to get fired, and they are given just enough money to maintain things in a mediocre but passable way.  

What opportunities are there to maximize public control and investment with private greed?

Perhaps the post could have analyzed the following situations, or something similar, and provided a more nuanced view:
1) fully public: infrastructure is owned, operated and maintained entirely by a department of the government.
2) mostly public: most everything is owned by the government, but government grants a monopoly to operate to a heavily regulated company.  this is the UK system, right?
3) half public half private: public ownership of basic infrastructure, private company pays a fee to run trains on the track.  Any company can bid for the right.
4) mostly private: government uses its unique powers to support or provides a subsidy for a company that builds, operates, and maintains rail transit.  In many ways, this was the case in the 19th century US as the major railroad companies were granted land in the west for free.  
5) totally private: I don&#039;t think this even exists, except maybe in the case of US freight.  Government always has to get involved in transportation somehow, even if it is just in ROW acquisition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many commenters have hit upon the main problem with this post already: it seems to be reaching for a pre-determined conclusion.  It reads as an opinion piece disguised at information.  I don&#8217;t really disagree with the point, but I think it would have been much more helpful had it simply analyzed different transportation organizational types, each with a different level of privatisation.  The best point of the post was that the public should share the profits as well as the losses with the rail operators.  </p>
<p>I think the underlying argument for privatisation is that the pursuit of profit will streamline a company.  The money will go to the most efficient places, especially if there is competition.  If the demand for the service is too low and the cost of the infrastructure is too high, no company can do a good job and will eventually need to be bailed out.</p>
<p>The argument for public operation is that a well and properly funded agency with good management can accomplish amazing things.  Intelligence and money are not exactly always aligned in the government.  More often than not, a government bureacrat&#8217;s main job is not to get fired, and they are given just enough money to maintain things in a mediocre but passable way.  </p>
<p>What opportunities are there to maximize public control and investment with private greed?</p>
<p>Perhaps the post could have analyzed the following situations, or something similar, and provided a more nuanced view:<br />
1) fully public: infrastructure is owned, operated and maintained entirely by a department of the government.<br />
2) mostly public: most everything is owned by the government, but government grants a monopoly to operate to a heavily regulated company.  this is the UK system, right?<br />
3) half public half private: public ownership of basic infrastructure, private company pays a fee to run trains on the track.  Any company can bid for the right.<br />
4) mostly private: government uses its unique powers to support or provides a subsidy for a company that builds, operates, and maintains rail transit.  In many ways, this was the case in the 19th century US as the major railroad companies were granted land in the west for free.<br />
5) totally private: I don&#8217;t think this even exists, except maybe in the case of US freight.  Government always has to get involved in transportation somehow, even if it is just in ROW acquisition.</p>
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		<title>By: Norman Brown</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/#comment-15502</link>
		<dc:creator>Norman Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4565#comment-15502</guid>
		<description>Enjoyable discourse.  When this subject comes up I invariably recommend Eliot Sclar&#039;s book &quot;Privatization- you don&#039;t always get what you pay for&quot; to serious readers.   He analyzes many different operations, highway departments, fire departments, transit systems, health providers that have moved back and forth between the public and private spheres.  The thrust of his argument is that privatizations tend to succeed to the extent that the operation can be made to resemble an actual competitive market.  In that regard ease of entry and exit to the marketplace, number of potential participants, information disequilibrium and moral hazard are all important factors.  Regardless, there was one repeating theme though that is especially important with regard to mass transit and that is the tendency, even the desire, of private operators to &quot;sweat&quot; the assets, use the capital with which they are charges to its maximum value, use it up, wear it out, that is particularly problematic with transit properties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enjoyable discourse.  When this subject comes up I invariably recommend Eliot Sclar&#8217;s book &#8220;Privatization- you don&#8217;t always get what you pay for&#8221; to serious readers.   He analyzes many different operations, highway departments, fire departments, transit systems, health providers that have moved back and forth between the public and private spheres.  The thrust of his argument is that privatizations tend to succeed to the extent that the operation can be made to resemble an actual competitive market.  In that regard ease of entry and exit to the marketplace, number of potential participants, information disequilibrium and moral hazard are all important factors.  Regardless, there was one repeating theme though that is especially important with regard to mass transit and that is the tendency, even the desire, of private operators to &#8220;sweat&#8221; the assets, use the capital with which they are charges to its maximum value, use it up, wear it out, that is particularly problematic with transit properties.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Eldridge</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/#comment-15478</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Eldridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4565#comment-15478</guid>
		<description>I work in the UK rail industry and have done since 1983.

My first thought on reading the article is to ask &quot;What does success look like?&quot;. Since privatisation the number of passenger miles travelled has increased by 50%. In the previous 45 years the number of passenger miles was roughly constant. The number of train services has increased. The railway has become even safer. The cost to the Treasury of running the service has increased a lot.

The Train Operating Companies (TOCs) bid for a franchise in which the Government specified a minimum level of service, restrictions on fare increases and agreed a fixed contract price. This meant that the TOCs took the risk on revenue. If they increased passenger traffic and reduced costs they made more money. They responded to these incentives by trying to carry more people; for example, by making more use of their rolling stock to improve timetables.

Railtrack had the job of maintaining the infrastructure and selling capacity to train operators (passenger and freight). They were the company who would decide whether or not to open lines or electrify existing ones.

Since privatisation there have been many changes in the franchising regime. The current model has short franchise lengths and more direct Government management than in the days of British Rail.

I have some thoughts on the franchise model.
The private sector will normally do what it has incentives to do. The result is more train services and more passenger traffic. There has been one particular TOC with a twenty year franchise. That TOC has invested in doubling single line routes and building new stations and routes because they can see the benefit within their franchise life. Conversely Railtrack had no great incentive to electrify because the return on investment took longer to arrive than its contracts were expected to last.

To me the history shows that you need to get the basic structure right by giving each party an incentive to do what will result in the best total outcome. I think that does not require the rail industry to be all public or all private but it probably does require the Government to have a clear idea of what that outcome should look like.

The most recent franchise failures illustrate the &quot;winner&#039;s curse&quot;. In order to win a franchise bid you have to pay more than the opposition. Consequently you end up paying more than the franchise is worth. In a boom you get away with it. In a recession you do not.

All these are my personal views only.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work in the UK rail industry and have done since 1983.</p>
<p>My first thought on reading the article is to ask &#8220;What does success look like?&#8221;. Since privatisation the number of passenger miles travelled has increased by 50%. In the previous 45 years the number of passenger miles was roughly constant. The number of train services has increased. The railway has become even safer. The cost to the Treasury of running the service has increased a lot.</p>
<p>The Train Operating Companies (TOCs) bid for a franchise in which the Government specified a minimum level of service, restrictions on fare increases and agreed a fixed contract price. This meant that the TOCs took the risk on revenue. If they increased passenger traffic and reduced costs they made more money. They responded to these incentives by trying to carry more people; for example, by making more use of their rolling stock to improve timetables.</p>
<p>Railtrack had the job of maintaining the infrastructure and selling capacity to train operators (passenger and freight). They were the company who would decide whether or not to open lines or electrify existing ones.</p>
<p>Since privatisation there have been many changes in the franchising regime. The current model has short franchise lengths and more direct Government management than in the days of British Rail.</p>
<p>I have some thoughts on the franchise model.<br />
The private sector will normally do what it has incentives to do. The result is more train services and more passenger traffic. There has been one particular TOC with a twenty year franchise. That TOC has invested in doubling single line routes and building new stations and routes because they can see the benefit within their franchise life. Conversely Railtrack had no great incentive to electrify because the return on investment took longer to arrive than its contracts were expected to last.</p>
<p>To me the history shows that you need to get the basic structure right by giving each party an incentive to do what will result in the best total outcome. I think that does not require the rail industry to be all public or all private but it probably does require the Government to have a clear idea of what that outcome should look like.</p>
<p>The most recent franchise failures illustrate the &#8220;winner&#8217;s curse&#8221;. In order to win a franchise bid you have to pay more than the opposition. Consequently you end up paying more than the franchise is worth. In a boom you get away with it. In a recession you do not.</p>
<p>All these are my personal views only.</p>
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		<title>By: arie</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/#comment-15439</link>
		<dc:creator>arie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4565#comment-15439</guid>
		<description>not only in European countries would do it but in a developing country like only in Indonesia, also was to privatize the public company that actually controlled the needs of society, the privatization was done because no one judged competition and needs to be fixed again. these steps make a lot of state companies controlled by foreign powers, although not really a fair competition but this will continue to be done. in Indonesia still think will be better and cheaper if the company is primarily state privatized the transportation field.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>not only in European countries would do it but in a developing country like only in Indonesia, also was to privatize the public company that actually controlled the needs of society, the privatization was done because no one judged competition and needs to be fixed again. these steps make a lot of state companies controlled by foreign powers, although not really a fair competition but this will continue to be done. in Indonesia still think will be better and cheaper if the company is primarily state privatized the transportation field.</p>
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