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	<title>Comments on: Privatization in the UK Breaks Down, Putting Neoliberal Ideology Into Question</title>
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	<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/</link>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/#comment-75315</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2010 16:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4565#comment-75315</guid>
		<description>I think an important distinction needs to be made here: *contracted operations are not exactly privatization*.

Ordinary contracted operations can suck, but they can also be pretty good, and when all available contractors suck, the underlying government agency can just bring things back in-house.  At least if it owns the infrastructure.

And the vehicles are part of the infrastructure.  The ROSCO system in the UK is widely considered a failure and a haven for rent-seeking.

Contrast Metrolink in LA, which owns its tracks (mostly), owns its trains as well, and only contracts out the actual operations -- which means when the contractor kills people they can be sacked, which they were.  The government agency is in control at all times, even if there&#039;s an intermediate layer of contracted corporation between the agency and the front-line employees.

From my understanding, this is how some of the bus systems work in the UK: buses models are specified and possibly provided by the transport agency, even though the bus operator runs them?  Am I mistaken?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think an important distinction needs to be made here: *contracted operations are not exactly privatization*.</p>
<p>Ordinary contracted operations can suck, but they can also be pretty good, and when all available contractors suck, the underlying government agency can just bring things back in-house.  At least if it owns the infrastructure.</p>
<p>And the vehicles are part of the infrastructure.  The ROSCO system in the UK is widely considered a failure and a haven for rent-seeking.</p>
<p>Contrast Metrolink in LA, which owns its tracks (mostly), owns its trains as well, and only contracts out the actual operations &#8212; which means when the contractor kills people they can be sacked, which they were.  The government agency is in control at all times, even if there&#8217;s an intermediate layer of contracted corporation between the agency and the front-line employees.</p>
<p>From my understanding, this is how some of the bus systems work in the UK: buses models are specified and possibly provided by the transport agency, even though the bus operator runs them?  Am I mistaken?</p>
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		<title>By: John G</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/#comment-75311</link>
		<dc:creator>John G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2010 16:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4565#comment-75311</guid>
		<description>I think that the privatization of public transit is a really dangerous idea. People are talking about here in Toronto. A coalition has formed and they are trying to advocate against it. I encourage everyone to take a look at their in-depth video which shows why privatization has failed around the world: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAmnmehAy3w</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the privatization of public transit is a really dangerous idea. People are talking about here in Toronto. A coalition has formed and they are trying to advocate against it. I encourage everyone to take a look at their in-depth video which shows why privatization has failed around the world: </p>
<p><span style="text-align:center; display: block;"><a href="http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/"><img src="http://img.youtube.com/vi/xAmnmehAy3w/2.jpg" alt="" /></a></span></p>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/#comment-15786</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:48:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4565#comment-15786</guid>
		<description>Also it&#039;s worth noting that privately-run streetcars and urban railroads -- which often continued to be extremely popular even after public roads were paved to subsidize cars -- generally suffered from municipal price controls, and were unable to raise prices even enough to keep up with inflation.  This left them with insufficient money to even maintain their systems.  Eventually the systems were taken over by the municipalities.

This was actually the stated *INTENT* of refusing to allow them to increase fares in the case of New York City, but it seems to have been more of an accident in some other cases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also it&#8217;s worth noting that privately-run streetcars and urban railroads &#8212; which often continued to be extremely popular even after public roads were paved to subsidize cars &#8212; generally suffered from municipal price controls, and were unable to raise prices even enough to keep up with inflation.  This left them with insufficient money to even maintain their systems.  Eventually the systems were taken over by the municipalities.</p>
<p>This was actually the stated *INTENT* of refusing to allow them to increase fares in the case of New York City, but it seems to have been more of an accident in some other cases.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/#comment-15785</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4565#comment-15785</guid>
		<description>&quot;To me the history shows that you need to get the basic structure right by giving each party an incentive to do what will result in the best total outcome. I think that does not require the rail industry to be all public or all private but it probably does require the Government to have a clear idea of what that outcome should look like.&quot;

Hell yeah.

&quot;Why don’t private rail companies succeed? It does’t make sense. &quot;
Government-subsidized competition.  If all the better-than-dirt roads were private toll roads paying for *all* their own costs, private passenger railroads would be quite successful and profitable, and this was proven in the 19th century.

We seem to have come to a consensus in most countries that transportation is a public good, and that government should therefore fund roads, airports, etc.  In most countries they include rail in that; only in the US and a few others does it get disparate treatment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;To me the history shows that you need to get the basic structure right by giving each party an incentive to do what will result in the best total outcome. I think that does not require the rail industry to be all public or all private but it probably does require the Government to have a clear idea of what that outcome should look like.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hell yeah.</p>
<p>&#8220;Why don’t private rail companies succeed? It does’t make sense. &#8221;<br />
Government-subsidized competition.  If all the better-than-dirt roads were private toll roads paying for *all* their own costs, private passenger railroads would be quite successful and profitable, and this was proven in the 19th century.</p>
<p>We seem to have come to a consensus in most countries that transportation is a public good, and that government should therefore fund roads, airports, etc.  In most countries they include rail in that; only in the US and a few others does it get disparate treatment.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/#comment-15660</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4565#comment-15660</guid>
		<description>Pullman and the St. Louis Car Company both delivered defective subway cars to New York, which sued them into bankruptcy. The problem was that by the 1970s there weren&#039;t a lot of train manufacturers left in the US, and Buy American provisions and federal regulations of buses and trains reduced the amount of competition among manufacturers further.

The rail carriers were burdened with legacy costs and could not by law abandon underperforming lines without getting ICC approval. They couldn&#039;t even merge without an approval process, which often took years. The PRR and NYC wanted to merge in 1958; with governmental red tape, they merged in 1967. The railroads that had enough freight business to subsidize money-losing passenger rail, like ATSF or Seaboard, survived until Amtrak took over the money-losing part. The ones that didn&#039;t, like the PRR, went bankrupt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pullman and the St. Louis Car Company both delivered defective subway cars to New York, which sued them into bankruptcy. The problem was that by the 1970s there weren&#8217;t a lot of train manufacturers left in the US, and Buy American provisions and federal regulations of buses and trains reduced the amount of competition among manufacturers further.</p>
<p>The rail carriers were burdened with legacy costs and could not by law abandon underperforming lines without getting ICC approval. They couldn&#8217;t even merge without an approval process, which often took years. The PRR and NYC wanted to merge in 1958; with governmental red tape, they merged in 1967. The railroads that had enough freight business to subsidize money-losing passenger rail, like ATSF or Seaboard, survived until Amtrak took over the money-losing part. The ones that didn&#8217;t, like the PRR, went bankrupt.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/#comment-15658</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4565#comment-15658</guid>
		<description>Why don&#039;t private rail companies succeed? It does&#039;t make sense. Obviously they&#039;d need help for upstart costs from the government because the Infrastructure costs so much but... What about all the old private rail companies in the United States? Pullman and all that. There was no public rail company until AmTrak. Why did it work then, but not now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why don&#8217;t private rail companies succeed? It does&#8217;t make sense. Obviously they&#8217;d need help for upstart costs from the government because the Infrastructure costs so much but&#8230; What about all the old private rail companies in the United States? Pullman and all that. There was no public rail company until AmTrak. Why did it work then, but not now?</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/#comment-15541</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4565#comment-15541</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Airline deregulation has allowed for a large number of airlines to run continuously on the brink of bankruptcy, and a large number of airline bailouts. Even the “low cost airlines” routinely go bankrupt. Warren Buffett famously said that if the Wright Brothers’ plane had been shot down, it would have saved investors a fortune.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Southwest and Jetblue haven&#039;t gone bankrupt, and neither have Easyjet and Ryanair. They may do so in the future, though - even before deregulation, airlines were marginally profitable. For example, Howard Hughes needed his Hollywood money to fund his aviation hobby.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Airline deregulation has allowed for a large number of airlines to run continuously on the brink of bankruptcy, and a large number of airline bailouts. Even the “low cost airlines” routinely go bankrupt. Warren Buffett famously said that if the Wright Brothers’ plane had been shot down, it would have saved investors a fortune.</p></blockquote>
<p>Southwest and Jetblue haven&#8217;t gone bankrupt, and neither have Easyjet and Ryanair. They may do so in the future, though &#8211; even before deregulation, airlines were marginally profitable. For example, Howard Hughes needed his Hollywood money to fund his aviation hobby.</p>
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		<title>By: Cameron Slick</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/#comment-15524</link>
		<dc:creator>Cameron Slick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4565#comment-15524</guid>
		<description>We could have saved high-quality, 1930&#039;s style High Speed Rail in this country if in the late 50&#039;s we provided private railroads with a subsidy to keep their tracks in good shape to maintain fast speeds are reasonable, quality service. By the mid-1960&#039;s, to some fault of their own, many passenger railroads in the midwest were in degrading shape, and the newly completed freeways made it so much less attractive to take the train. Giving a minor subsidy to the railroads then would have cost a lot less than Amtrak.

The Big Government company Amtrak by the way, has a better on-time performance than any airline and has the least bit of hassle when it comes to refunds, frequent traveler points, and cheaper cocktails.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We could have saved high-quality, 1930&#8242;s style High Speed Rail in this country if in the late 50&#8242;s we provided private railroads with a subsidy to keep their tracks in good shape to maintain fast speeds are reasonable, quality service. By the mid-1960&#8242;s, to some fault of their own, many passenger railroads in the midwest were in degrading shape, and the newly completed freeways made it so much less attractive to take the train. Giving a minor subsidy to the railroads then would have cost a lot less than Amtrak.</p>
<p>The Big Government company Amtrak by the way, has a better on-time performance than any airline and has the least bit of hassle when it comes to refunds, frequent traveler points, and cheaper cocktails.</p>
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		<title>By: AlexB</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/#comment-15522</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4565#comment-15522</guid>
		<description>Many commenters have hit upon the main problem with this post already: it seems to be reaching for a pre-determined conclusion.  It reads as an opinion piece disguised at information.  I don&#039;t really disagree with the point, but I think it would have been much more helpful had it simply analyzed different transportation organizational types, each with a different level of privatisation.  The best point of the post was that the public should share the profits as well as the losses with the rail operators.  

I think the underlying argument for privatisation is that the pursuit of profit will streamline a company.  The money will go to the most efficient places, especially if there is competition.  If the demand for the service is too low and the cost of the infrastructure is too high, no company can do a good job and will eventually need to be bailed out.

The argument for public operation is that a well and properly funded agency with good management can accomplish amazing things.  Intelligence and money are not exactly always aligned in the government.  More often than not, a government bureacrat&#039;s main job is not to get fired, and they are given just enough money to maintain things in a mediocre but passable way.  

What opportunities are there to maximize public control and investment with private greed?

Perhaps the post could have analyzed the following situations, or something similar, and provided a more nuanced view:
1) fully public: infrastructure is owned, operated and maintained entirely by a department of the government.
2) mostly public: most everything is owned by the government, but government grants a monopoly to operate to a heavily regulated company.  this is the UK system, right?
3) half public half private: public ownership of basic infrastructure, private company pays a fee to run trains on the track.  Any company can bid for the right.
4) mostly private: government uses its unique powers to support or provides a subsidy for a company that builds, operates, and maintains rail transit.  In many ways, this was the case in the 19th century US as the major railroad companies were granted land in the west for free.  
5) totally private: I don&#039;t think this even exists, except maybe in the case of US freight.  Government always has to get involved in transportation somehow, even if it is just in ROW acquisition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many commenters have hit upon the main problem with this post already: it seems to be reaching for a pre-determined conclusion.  It reads as an opinion piece disguised at information.  I don&#8217;t really disagree with the point, but I think it would have been much more helpful had it simply analyzed different transportation organizational types, each with a different level of privatisation.  The best point of the post was that the public should share the profits as well as the losses with the rail operators.  </p>
<p>I think the underlying argument for privatisation is that the pursuit of profit will streamline a company.  The money will go to the most efficient places, especially if there is competition.  If the demand for the service is too low and the cost of the infrastructure is too high, no company can do a good job and will eventually need to be bailed out.</p>
<p>The argument for public operation is that a well and properly funded agency with good management can accomplish amazing things.  Intelligence and money are not exactly always aligned in the government.  More often than not, a government bureacrat&#8217;s main job is not to get fired, and they are given just enough money to maintain things in a mediocre but passable way.  </p>
<p>What opportunities are there to maximize public control and investment with private greed?</p>
<p>Perhaps the post could have analyzed the following situations, or something similar, and provided a more nuanced view:<br />
1) fully public: infrastructure is owned, operated and maintained entirely by a department of the government.<br />
2) mostly public: most everything is owned by the government, but government grants a monopoly to operate to a heavily regulated company.  this is the UK system, right?<br />
3) half public half private: public ownership of basic infrastructure, private company pays a fee to run trains on the track.  Any company can bid for the right.<br />
4) mostly private: government uses its unique powers to support or provides a subsidy for a company that builds, operates, and maintains rail transit.  In many ways, this was the case in the 19th century US as the major railroad companies were granted land in the west for free.<br />
5) totally private: I don&#8217;t think this even exists, except maybe in the case of US freight.  Government always has to get involved in transportation somehow, even if it is just in ROW acquisition.</p>
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		<title>By: Norman Brown</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/10/privatization-in-the-uk-breaks-down-putting-neoliberal-ideology-into-question/#comment-15502</link>
		<dc:creator>Norman Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4565#comment-15502</guid>
		<description>Enjoyable discourse.  When this subject comes up I invariably recommend Eliot Sclar&#039;s book &quot;Privatization- you don&#039;t always get what you pay for&quot; to serious readers.   He analyzes many different operations, highway departments, fire departments, transit systems, health providers that have moved back and forth between the public and private spheres.  The thrust of his argument is that privatizations tend to succeed to the extent that the operation can be made to resemble an actual competitive market.  In that regard ease of entry and exit to the marketplace, number of potential participants, information disequilibrium and moral hazard are all important factors.  Regardless, there was one repeating theme though that is especially important with regard to mass transit and that is the tendency, even the desire, of private operators to &quot;sweat&quot; the assets, use the capital with which they are charges to its maximum value, use it up, wear it out, that is particularly problematic with transit properties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enjoyable discourse.  When this subject comes up I invariably recommend Eliot Sclar&#8217;s book &#8220;Privatization- you don&#8217;t always get what you pay for&#8221; to serious readers.   He analyzes many different operations, highway departments, fire departments, transit systems, health providers that have moved back and forth between the public and private spheres.  The thrust of his argument is that privatizations tend to succeed to the extent that the operation can be made to resemble an actual competitive market.  In that regard ease of entry and exit to the marketplace, number of potential participants, information disequilibrium and moral hazard are all important factors.  Regardless, there was one repeating theme though that is especially important with regard to mass transit and that is the tendency, even the desire, of private operators to &#8220;sweat&#8221; the assets, use the capital with which they are charges to its maximum value, use it up, wear it out, that is particularly problematic with transit properties.</p>
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