Comments on: Is Car Sharing Good for Cities? http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/11/is-car-sharing-good-for-cities/ Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:29:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: alurin http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/11/is-car-sharing-good-for-cities/#comment-15947 alurin Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:57:46 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4606#comment-15947 RH Maxi's other point seems to be that car sharing will turn "former loyal transit riders" who will "stab our back". In addition to sounding paranoid, this goes against both my experience and logic. Anecdotally, all the car-sharing members I know continue to be loyal transit riders (and bikers). In my neighborhood, there is a fight over bringing Boston's Green Line out to the neighborhood. The car-sharing members are all for it. The opponents are car-owners who are afraid that light rail will cause people from neighboring towns to drive in to park in our neighborhood and use the T, thus increasing traffic and making it difficult to find a parking space. Car-sharers don't carer about finding parking, because they're not responsible for parking the shared car. Car sharers don't care much about traffic, because they don't drive every day. More importantly, as people on this thread have pointed out over and over again, car-sharing makes the would-be driver aware of the the cost of each drive. People who own their own cars drive so much in part because it seems like the economical thing to do: you've already paid thousands of dollars for the car, and you're paying for insurance whether you drive or take the bus; might as well drive,because it reduces the cost per drive. Car-sharing helps people to unlearn that way of thinking. When you're paying $10/hour for a car, you think about your decision first. RH Maxi’s other point seems to be that car sharing will turn “former loyal transit riders” who will “stab our back”. In addition to sounding paranoid, this goes against both my experience and logic. Anecdotally, all the car-sharing members I know continue to be loyal transit riders (and bikers). In my neighborhood, there is a fight over bringing Boston’s Green Line out to the neighborhood. The car-sharing members are all for it. The opponents are car-owners who are afraid that light rail will cause people from neighboring towns to drive in to park in our neighborhood and use the T, thus increasing traffic and making it difficult to find a parking space. Car-sharers don’t carer about finding parking, because they’re not responsible for parking the shared car. Car sharers don’t care much about traffic, because they don’t drive every day.
More importantly, as people on this thread have pointed out over and over again, car-sharing makes the would-be driver aware of the the cost of each drive. People who own their own cars drive so much in part because it seems like the economical thing to do: you’ve already paid thousands of dollars for the car, and you’re paying for insurance whether you drive or take the bus; might as well drive,because it reduces the cost per drive. Car-sharing helps people to unlearn that way of thinking. When you’re paying $10/hour for a car, you think about your decision first.

]]> By: Jennifer http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/11/is-car-sharing-good-for-cities/#comment-15811 Jennifer Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:17:20 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4606#comment-15811 Also, I disagree with RH Maxi that bikers and cars sharing the road is inherently dangerous. I think in a bike-friendly city you can have harmony. I seldom felt endangered pedaling around Portland, and even now that I live in St. Louis I don't feel like having cars on the road with me is a problem so much as the attitude of the drivers in those cars. Change the attitudes, like they have in Portland, and you change the hazard. Besides, I think people driving car-share cars are going to be exactly the kind of conscious drivers I'd like to see out on the road. Also, I disagree with RH Maxi that bikers and cars sharing the road is inherently dangerous. I think in a bike-friendly city you can have harmony. I seldom felt endangered pedaling around Portland, and even now that I live in St. Louis I don’t feel like having cars on the road with me is a problem so much as the attitude of the drivers in those cars. Change the attitudes, like they have in Portland, and you change the hazard. Besides, I think people driving car-share cars are going to be exactly the kind of conscious drivers I’d like to see out on the road.

]]> By: Jennifer http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/11/is-car-sharing-good-for-cities/#comment-15804 Jennifer Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:10:03 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4606#comment-15804 I have to say that having car share is great and doesn't keep people from using transit at all. Car share programs impress upon people the true opportunity cost of driving because you pay at the moment you use it. In a city like Paris that is transit-saturated and people presumably already have monthly transit passes, suddenly subbing in car share trips wouldn't make sense economically. Why car share is great, though, is because it lets people who would otherwise hang on to their cars finally let go. In Portland, OR, people can use transit all over the city, but Portland is so great because of the access to mountains & beach - none of which is reachable by transit. Having car share means you can run out to the beach for the day or up onto Mt. Hood; that you can run errands for a party and not have to lug it all home on the bus...all the little things that might convince people who are ready to go car-free but want that extra security blanket "just in case." I have to say that having car share is great and doesn’t keep people from using transit at all. Car share programs impress upon people the true opportunity cost of driving because you pay at the moment you use it. In a city like Paris that is transit-saturated and people presumably already have monthly transit passes, suddenly subbing in car share trips wouldn’t make sense economically.

Why car share is great, though, is because it lets people who would otherwise hang on to their cars finally let go. In Portland, OR, people can use transit all over the city, but Portland is so great because of the access to mountains & beach – none of which is reachable by transit. Having car share means you can run out to the beach for the day or up onto Mt. Hood; that you can run errands for a party and not have to lug it all home on the bus…all the little things that might convince people who are ready to go car-free but want that extra security blanket “just in case.”

]]> By: Alurin http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/11/is-car-sharing-good-for-cities/#comment-15803 Alurin Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:01:17 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4606#comment-15803 Jonathan: West Medford, actually. We should keep in mind that the inner suburbs of Boston are quite compact by the standards of the rest of the country, because they were originally built around transit, not cars. A system that can reduce car usage in places like Medford, Arlington, or Somerville could be very useful in many American central cities with similar densities. Jonathan: West Medford, actually. We should keep in mind that the inner suburbs of Boston are quite compact by the standards of the rest of the country, because they were originally built around transit, not cars. A system that can reduce car usage in places like Medford, Arlington, or Somerville could be very useful in many American central cities with similar densities.

]]> By: Matt Lyons http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/11/is-car-sharing-good-for-cities/#comment-15761 Matt Lyons Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:39:27 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4606#comment-15761 See the first comment on this page: http://tinyurl.com/ye9cxau The Economist chart obviously was only looking at the ownership rate of "cars" and omitted the data for light trucks and SUVs, which make up something like 40% of the United States passenger vehicle fleet. In Europe, by comparison, light trucks and SUVs are relatively rare. So the Economist chart is really not an apples to apples comparison like the vehicles per capita data shown on the Wiki page in which the United States is the undisputed world leader. See also http://tinyurl.com/52za2r See the first comment on this page: http://tinyurl.com/ye9cxau

The Economist chart obviously was only looking at the ownership rate of “cars” and omitted the data for light trucks and SUVs, which make up something like 40% of the United States passenger vehicle fleet. In Europe, by comparison, light trucks and SUVs are relatively rare. So the Economist chart is really not an apples to apples comparison like the vehicles per capita data shown on the Wiki page in which the United States is the undisputed world leader.

See also http://tinyurl.com/52za2r

]]> By: Steven Vance http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/11/is-car-sharing-good-for-cities/#comment-15704 Steven Vance Fri, 13 Nov 2009 05:07:44 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4606#comment-15704 If Autolib does happen, I hope the vandals won't see driving as a bougie thing and steal or trash all the cars. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/31/world/europe/31bikes.html I have a car sharing membership I received for free from my work. I've used it once. I won't renew. I find my bicycle way more convenient (the nearest car when I rented was over a mile away and I biked to it) and cheaper (I rented a car from midnight to 2 AM when it was $6 per hour). I think the "Greens" are right. Maybe the 4 million euros can go to running Metro trains past 1 AM. If Autolib does happen, I hope the vandals won’t see driving as a bougie thing and steal or trash all the cars.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/31/world/europe/31bikes.html

I have a car sharing membership I received for free from my work. I’ve used it once. I won’t renew. I find my bicycle way more convenient (the nearest car when I rented was over a mile away and I biked to it) and cheaper (I rented a car from midnight to 2 AM when it was $6 per hour).

I think the “Greens” are right. Maybe the 4 million euros can go to running Metro trains past 1 AM.

]]> By: Alon Levy http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/11/is-car-sharing-good-for-cities/#comment-15698 Alon Levy Fri, 13 Nov 2009 02:56:34 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4606#comment-15698 The European data can be compared to <a href="http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=STAT/06/125" rel="nofollow">this EU press release</a>. The UK number can also be compared to data coming from the UK government, which gives the same number to within 7/1,000, but I don't remember how to access it right now. The European data can be compared to this EU press release. The UK number can also be compared to data coming from the UK government, which gives the same number to within 7/1,000, but I don’t remember how to access it right now.

]]> By: trainsintokyo http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/11/is-car-sharing-good-for-cities/#comment-15691 trainsintokyo Fri, 13 Nov 2009 02:06:02 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4606#comment-15691 Regarding the car ownership statistics: the Economist could be looking at the number of passenger cars per 1000 persons, while the Wikipedia data source counts all motor vehicles (including trucks, farm vehicles, motorcycles, etc.). Both sources are unavailable for review (the IRF data is not free, and the Wiki-linked data isn't available). Regarding the car ownership statistics: the Economist could be looking at the number of passenger cars per 1000 persons, while the Wikipedia data source counts all motor vehicles (including trucks, farm vehicles, motorcycles, etc.). Both sources are unavailable for review (the IRF data is not free, and the Wiki-linked data isn’t available).

]]> By: Jonathan http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/11/is-car-sharing-good-for-cities/#comment-15684 Jonathan Thu, 12 Nov 2009 23:45:22 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4606#comment-15684 Alurin, as you point out, you don't live in a city; you live in the suburbs, perhaps Arlington or Somerville; are you shopping at the Fresh Pond Whole Foods? Maybe if I lived there I would get zipcar too! Alurin, as you point out, you don’t live in a city; you live in the suburbs, perhaps Arlington or Somerville; are you shopping at the Fresh Pond Whole Foods? Maybe if I lived there I would get zipcar too!

]]> By: Alurin http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/11/11/is-car-sharing-good-for-cities/#comment-15657 Alurin Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:03:56 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4606#comment-15657 Jonathan: I live in a suburb of Boston. I have a house with a yard. I do not personally own a car. I commute to work by bike and bus/train. However, I do occasionally have unmet needs to go to Ikea or Costco. My local supermarket is a Whole Foods, and a small one at that, so sometimes I need to do shopping outside of walking distance. Everything I've bought from Ikea I've been able to fit in a car. As for why someone would sign up for carsharing if they already owned a car, Maxi, they're not stupid. They're trying to avoid buying a second car. I joined up when my partner took a job out of town. She had the car (because it was a job in a transit-forsaken place), and I only needed a car every once in a while, So I signed up for car sharing. Eventually, we both got jobs in the same place, and sold the car. So start using your imagination before you hurl insults at people. Jonathan: I live in a suburb of Boston. I have a house with a yard. I do not personally own a car. I commute to work by bike and bus/train. However, I do occasionally have unmet needs to go to Ikea or Costco. My local supermarket is a Whole Foods, and a small one at that, so sometimes I need to do shopping outside of walking distance. Everything I’ve bought from Ikea I’ve been able to fit in a car.

As for why someone would sign up for carsharing if they already owned a car, Maxi, they’re not stupid. They’re trying to avoid buying a second car. I joined up when my partner took a job out of town. She had the car (because it was a job in a transit-forsaken place), and I only needed a car every once in a while, So I signed up for car sharing. Eventually, we both got jobs in the same place, and sold the car. So start using your imagination before you hurl insults at people.

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