Comments on: European High-Speed Rail Expands Across the Continent with Five New Line Segments http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/11/european-high-speed-rail-expands-across-the-continent-with-five-new-line-segments/ Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:43:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Dom http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/11/european-high-speed-rail-expands-across-the-continent-with-five-new-line-segments/#comment-20923 Dom Sun, 13 Dec 2009 19:54:52 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4847#comment-20923 The swedish project is here : http://www.europakorridoren.se/e_om.asp?id=5 The swedish project is here :
http://www.europakorridoren.se/e_om.asp?id=5

]]> By: Dom http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/11/european-high-speed-rail-expands-across-the-continent-with-five-new-line-segments/#comment-20916 Dom Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:35:21 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4847#comment-20916 There is the project of a Y shaped ("Y-Trasse") ABS-NBS between Bremen, Hamburg & Hannover. The Wikipedia german page is not translated : http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-Trasse_Hannover%E2%80%93Hamburg/Bremen The map on the Pdf downloaded from the first weblink after the article says that the NBS part (Neubaustrecke = "new built line", 300 km/h) would go from Lauenbrück to Isernagen; I suppose the other pink branch to Langwedel, also NBS, would also be > 250 km/h, but the legend doesn't say it. The rest would be ABS (Aufbaustrecke = "up built"(upgraded) line) for 160 km/h. The project seems to meet some opposition... (My german is very poor, I'm French). I have seen a Swedish project of a new line, also Y shaped, faster than the present classic lines operated with tilting trains, I'll try to find it again... Great map, Yonah, as usual; and great blog... There is the project of a Y shaped (“Y-Trasse”) ABS-NBS between Bremen, Hamburg & Hannover. The Wikipedia german page is not translated : http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-Trasse_Hannover%E2%80%93Hamburg/Bremen
The map on the Pdf downloaded from the first weblink after the article says that the NBS part (Neubaustrecke = “new built line”, 300 km/h) would go from Lauenbrück to Isernagen; I suppose the other pink branch to Langwedel, also NBS, would also be > 250 km/h, but the legend doesn’t say it. The rest would be ABS (Aufbaustrecke = “up built”(upgraded) line) for 160 km/h. The project seems to meet some opposition… (My german is very poor, I’m French).
I have seen a Swedish project of a new line, also Y shaped, faster than the present classic lines operated with tilting trains, I’ll try to find it again…
Great map, Yonah, as usual; and great blog…

]]> By: Tomás http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/11/european-high-speed-rail-expands-across-the-continent-with-five-new-line-segments/#comment-20914 Tomás Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:26:26 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4847#comment-20914 Yonah, you could also show the proposed lines from Aveiro to Salamanca, Évora to Faro and Faro to Seville in Portugal and Spain. They have been debated extensively by both governments. They're all planned for 250 km/h plus running. And your Lisbon to Madrid HSL is incorrectly placed. It goes directly from Lisbon across the river Tagus and through Évora. Trains from Lisbon to Oporto and from Lisbon to Madrid won't share tracks Yonah, you could also show the proposed lines from Aveiro to Salamanca, Évora to Faro and Faro to Seville in Portugal and Spain. They have been debated extensively by both governments. They’re all planned for 250 km/h plus running.
And your Lisbon to Madrid HSL is incorrectly placed. It goes directly from Lisbon across the river Tagus and through Évora. Trains from Lisbon to Oporto and from Lisbon to Madrid won’t share tracks

]]> By: Fritz http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/11/european-high-speed-rail-expands-across-the-continent-with-five-new-line-segments/#comment-20852 Fritz Sun, 13 Dec 2009 05:28:42 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4847#comment-20852 My best train ride ever was from Paris to marseille for 25 Euros (PREMS deal). 3h10 for a train ride that covers a distance greater than Washington to Boston. Now back living in America, what is most depressing is that the line between Strasbourg and Basel is the TER 200... going 200km/h and far faster than our Acela. Many of the other non-high-speed lines average more quickly than Acela does. But, 2.5 billion in the THUD approps which will be passed this weekend (probably) is good news. Now, if only the NEC gets its EIS finished. My best train ride ever was from Paris to marseille for 25 Euros (PREMS deal). 3h10 for a train ride that covers a distance greater than Washington to Boston. Now back living in America, what is most depressing is that the line between Strasbourg and Basel is the TER 200… going 200km/h and far faster than our Acela. Many of the other non-high-speed lines average more quickly than Acela does.

But, 2.5 billion in the THUD approps which will be passed this weekend (probably) is good news. Now, if only the NEC gets its EIS finished.

]]> By: Max Wyss http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/11/european-high-speed-rail-expands-across-the-continent-with-five-new-line-segments/#comment-20800 Max Wyss Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:48:11 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4847#comment-20800 To BS: Hamburg - Berlin is a so-called "Ausbaustrecke" (an upgraded line), operated at speeds up to 230 km/h. That's why it did not get a colored line on the map. Hannover is the end point of the Hannover-Würzburg HSR, and the continuation to Hamburg is operated at 200 km/h, as far as it does not go through densely populated areas. München-Augsburg has been operated at 200 km/h for almost 40 years now, and it is too short to justify a higher speed. Zürich (actually the whole of Switzerland) has other issues than 250 km/h running; the Swiss network is operated at fixed intervals, and in that case, it is sufficient to reach the next node in time, and not as fast as possible. The two 250 km/h segments in Switzerland are the alpine base tunnels (Lötschberg in operation, but no trains at 250 km/h, Gotthard to open some time around 2017). Also, the Swiss network is at or over capacity, and the priorities are therefore to handle the traffic. Many of the black lines on the map are operated at 200 km/h. To BS: Hamburg – Berlin is a so-called “Ausbaustrecke” (an upgraded line), operated at speeds up to 230 km/h. That’s why it did not get a colored line on the map.

Hannover is the end point of the Hannover-Würzburg HSR, and the continuation to Hamburg is operated at 200 km/h, as far as it does not go through densely populated areas. München-Augsburg has been operated at 200 km/h for almost 40 years now, and it is too short to justify a higher speed.

Zürich (actually the whole of Switzerland) has other issues than 250 km/h running; the Swiss network is operated at fixed intervals, and in that case, it is sufficient to reach the next node in time, and not as fast as possible. The two 250 km/h segments in Switzerland are the alpine base tunnels (Lötschberg in operation, but no trains at 250 km/h, Gotthard to open some time around 2017). Also, the Swiss network is at or over capacity, and the priorities are therefore to handle the traffic.

Many of the black lines on the map are operated at 200 km/h.

]]> By: Mike Skehan http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/11/european-high-speed-rail-expands-across-the-continent-with-five-new-line-segments/#comment-20798 Mike Skehan Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:42:32 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4847#comment-20798 Just wait until January, when FRA announces the winners of 8 Bn in HSR funding. That will show them were not messin' around here. And OUR trains aren't limited to hundreds of Km/Hr. We can go any speed we want... even 90 mph! (now where's that conversion chart?) Just wait until January, when FRA announces the winners of 8 Bn in HSR funding.
That will show them were not messin’ around here.
And OUR trains aren’t limited to hundreds of Km/Hr. We can go any speed we want… even 90 mph! (now where’s that conversion chart?)

]]> By: John W http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/11/european-high-speed-rail-expands-across-the-continent-with-five-new-line-segments/#comment-20795 John W Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:03:51 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4847#comment-20795 BS @14 - Presumably the reason Berlin--Hamburg isn't a priority is that they already run ICE trains on that route at speeds in excess of 200kph (but below the 250kph threshold for Yonah's map), and that there are lines more in need of an upgrade. There's a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:High_Speed_Railroad_Map_Europe_2009.gif" rel="nofollow">map on wikipedia</a> showing those 'slower' routes below Yonah's cut-off, but it only shows currently operating routes. BS @14 -
Presumably the reason Berlin–Hamburg isn’t a priority is that they already run ICE trains on that route at speeds in excess of 200kph (but below the 250kph threshold for Yonah’s map), and that there are lines more in need of an upgrade. There’s a map on wikipedia showing those ‘slower’ routes below Yonah’s cut-off, but it only shows currently operating routes.

]]> By: Kyle from Miami http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/11/european-high-speed-rail-expands-across-the-continent-with-five-new-line-segments/#comment-20793 Kyle from Miami Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:57:19 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4847#comment-20793 I think it's really cool that you used the original spellings for the cities. Although I'm kind of surprised you didn't mention any of Spain's HSR lines which is a very efficient system that I've had the pleasure of riding numerous times between Zaragoza and Madrid. The main thing missing is to connect Spain's El AVE to France's TGV via Barcelona y Montpellier, once that is achieved, Spain will truly be integrated into the European HSR system. Great article! Please continue to write more about European rail affairs, it's amazingly interesting, thank you so much! iVIVA EUROPA! I think it’s really cool that you used the original spellings for the cities. Although I’m kind of surprised you didn’t mention any of Spain’s HSR lines which is a very efficient system that I’ve had the pleasure of riding numerous times between Zaragoza and Madrid. The main thing missing is to connect Spain’s El AVE to France’s TGV via Barcelona y Montpellier, once that is achieved, Spain will truly be integrated into the European HSR system. Great article! Please continue to write more about European rail affairs, it’s amazingly interesting, thank you so much!

iVIVA EUROPA!

]]> By: Loren Petrich http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/11/european-high-speed-rail-expands-across-the-continent-with-five-new-line-segments/#comment-20770 Loren Petrich Sat, 12 Dec 2009 14:12:48 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4847#comment-20770 I'm impressed by how far Europeans have gotten in their HSR efforts, and how much more they want to build. They seem to like the lines once they are built; trying to finance their construction is another story, I'm sure. Also notice an emerging continent-scale network. There isn't any deliberate plan for a network from Glasgow to Naples or from Tallinn to Cadiz or from Konya to Rennes, but the pieces are gradually being built, and their combination produces such a network. The lines are being built mostly for relatively short trips, but if lines are built from A to B, then B to C, and then C to D, one can travel the entire A - D length if one wants to. This is a lesson for US HSR efforts. There is no need to plan a line from Portland, ME to San Antonio, TX or from New York City to Minneapolis, MN. All that's necessary is to build lots of shorter lines with good connections between them, and large networks will emerge. The European distances add up: Glasgow-Naples: 1700 mi, Tallinn-Cadiz: 2800 mi, Konya-Rennes: 2600 mi. Even after the last two down, one still gets impressive distances: Berlin-Cadiz: 1800 mi, Vienna-Rennes: 1000 mi. By comparison, the eastern-US HSR proposals add up to lines with distances Portland-San Antonio: 2200 mi, NYC-Minneapolis: 1200 mi. Rather similar distances, it must be said. Even the Northeast Corridor may be interpreted as such a multiline system: NYC-DC and NYC-Boston. I’m impressed by how far Europeans have gotten in their HSR efforts, and how much more they want to build. They seem to like the lines once they are built; trying to finance their construction is another story, I’m sure.

Also notice an emerging continent-scale network. There isn’t any deliberate plan for a network from Glasgow to Naples or from Tallinn to Cadiz or from Konya to Rennes, but the pieces are gradually being built, and their combination produces such a network.

The lines are being built mostly for relatively short trips, but if lines are built from A to B, then B to C, and then C to D, one can travel the entire A – D length if one wants to.

This is a lesson for US HSR efforts. There is no need to plan a line from Portland, ME to San Antonio, TX or from New York City to Minneapolis, MN. All that’s necessary is to build lots of shorter lines with good connections between them, and large networks will emerge.

The European distances add up: Glasgow-Naples: 1700 mi, Tallinn-Cadiz: 2800 mi, Konya-Rennes: 2600 mi. Even after the last two down, one still gets impressive distances: Berlin-Cadiz: 1800 mi, Vienna-Rennes: 1000 mi.

By comparison, the eastern-US HSR proposals add up to lines with distances Portland-San Antonio: 2200 mi, NYC-Minneapolis: 1200 mi. Rather similar distances, it must be said.

Even the Northeast Corridor may be interpreted as such a multiline system: NYC-DC and NYC-Boston.

]]> By: Yonah Freemark http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/11/european-high-speed-rail-expands-across-the-continent-with-five-new-line-segments/#comment-20766 Yonah Freemark Sat, 12 Dec 2009 13:54:39 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4847#comment-20766 James -- Thanks for update on Germany -- I've added the section on the map. If any one has any more information on planned routes in Germany, I'm willing to add to this map; so far, I've been unable to find any other planned 250 km/h+ corridors. James –
Thanks for update on Germany — I’ve added the section on the map. If any one has any more information on planned routes in Germany, I’m willing to add to this map; so far, I’ve been unable to find any other planned 250 km/h+ corridors.

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