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	<title>Comments on: United Kingdom Commits to Further Rail Electrification</title>
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	<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/15/united-kingdom-commits-to-further-rail-electrification/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 06:40:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Ocean Railroader</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/15/united-kingdom-commits-to-further-rail-electrification/#comment-50423</link>
		<dc:creator>Ocean Railroader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jun 2010 02:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4955#comment-50423</guid>
		<description>The GO Transit was the first place I had ever been on a moving paasanger train in my life strangely on a trip to Ontario 

I hope they do build the giant eletric system for GO it would be great in that it would provid a logical end for a catenary line leaving the NEC out of New York City.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The GO Transit was the first place I had ever been on a moving paasanger train in my life strangely on a trip to Ontario </p>
<p>I hope they do build the giant eletric system for GO it would be great in that it would provid a logical end for a catenary line leaving the NEC out of New York City.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Fisher</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/15/united-kingdom-commits-to-further-rail-electrification/#comment-50402</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Fisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jun 2010 21:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4955#comment-50402</guid>
		<description>A correction is that this is &lt;a href=&quot;http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/rail-electrification.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the new link&lt;/a&gt; to the electrification plan linked earlier. I just want to bring it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A correction is that this is <a href="http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/rail-electrification.pdf" rel="nofollow">the new link</a> to the electrification plan linked earlier. I just want to bring it up.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Fisher</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/15/united-kingdom-commits-to-further-rail-electrification/#comment-50389</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Fisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jun 2010 19:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4955#comment-50389</guid>
		<description>Uh, Ocean Railroader, that&#039;s in Ontario. And it&#039;s GO Transit (the &quot;GO&quot; standing for &quot;Government of Ontario&quot;, since here in Ontario, where I live - and I&#039;m from Ottawa instead of Toronto - the government ownws GO).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh, Ocean Railroader, that&#8217;s in Ontario. And it&#8217;s GO Transit (the &#8220;GO&#8221; standing for &#8220;Government of Ontario&#8221;, since here in Ontario, where I live &#8211; and I&#8217;m from Ottawa instead of Toronto &#8211; the government ownws GO).</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Fisher</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/15/united-kingdom-commits-to-further-rail-electrification/#comment-50384</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Fisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jun 2010 18:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4955#comment-50384</guid>
		<description>There are other lines I see that have been left out but should be electrified. Some electrifications in other parts of England, as well as in Scotland (especially in the north), are missing from the plan. I don&#039;t see this being all &quot;67% electrified by 2017&quot;. It appears to be more like 40%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are other lines I see that have been left out but should be electrified. Some electrifications in other parts of England, as well as in Scotland (especially in the north), are missing from the plan. I don&#8217;t see this being all &#8220;67% electrified by 2017&#8243;. It appears to be more like 40%.</p>
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		<title>By: UK Airport Person</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/15/united-kingdom-commits-to-further-rail-electrification/#comment-49974</link>
		<dc:creator>UK Airport Person</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 11:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4955#comment-49974</guid>
		<description>Has this plan changed since the new Government and in light of the emergency budget this week? I have seen reports of plans to sell off HS1 and question marks on HS2, but nothing on this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has this plan changed since the new Government and in light of the emergency budget this week? I have seen reports of plans to sell off HS1 and question marks on HS2, but nothing on this.</p>
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		<title>By: Blackpool Theatre</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/15/united-kingdom-commits-to-further-rail-electrification/#comment-39172</link>
		<dc:creator>Blackpool Theatre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 18:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4955#comment-39172</guid>
		<description>I wonder what is going to happen after the election. I am guessingteh electrification budget will disapear after the election who ever wins. It will be a great shame. I think Blackpool was really hoping for electrification as soon as possible to try and help the tourism market in the town, plus they were hoping for a University which has just had the funding pulled.
Fingers crossed they find teh funding for the electrification schemes as they will help the local economies and provide jobs in the conversion. I wonder if we could have some laws that protect british companies so they get the contracts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what is going to happen after the election. I am guessingteh electrification budget will disapear after the election who ever wins. It will be a great shame. I think Blackpool was really hoping for electrification as soon as possible to try and help the tourism market in the town, plus they were hoping for a University which has just had the funding pulled.<br />
Fingers crossed they find teh funding for the electrification schemes as they will help the local economies and provide jobs in the conversion. I wonder if we could have some laws that protect british companies so they get the contracts?</p>
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		<title>By: DBX</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/15/united-kingdom-commits-to-further-rail-electrification/#comment-21818</link>
		<dc:creator>DBX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 22:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4955#comment-21818</guid>
		<description>Track curvature is a problem on parts of the Midland Main, although, like a lot of Britain&#039;s Victorian main lines, it was built to a fairly high speed standard to start with compared to its US counterparts.  The engineering on the last parts of the line to be built -- the St. Pancras extension and the Settle-Carlisle section, from the late 1860s to the mid 1870s, is just amazing for the time and not bad by today&#039;s standards.  The oldest (and curviest) part of the line is from about Leicester to Leeds, though even this stretch is 110mph over large sections (ironically the better-engineered northernmost Settle-Carlisle stretch has been left at a lower speed due first to underinvestment and now due to heavy freight use).  Still, I don&#039;t think there can be quite as nasty a curve on this line as there is on the West Coast Main at Wolverton, where some numbnut in the late Victorian era decided that rather than expanding the railroad engineering works there to the east of the existing line, it would be better to have the main line do a slalom around the eastern perimeter of the expanded works.  That situation remains to this day, with the siding to access the engineering works on a high-speed alignment and the main line bent like a pretzel.  Nonetheless the Pendolino zips through at what seems to be only a slight reduction in speed.

The sad part is that what was by far the better route through the Midlands, the Great Central with its larger Euro-standard loading gauge and high-speed alignment, was abandoned in 1969 at the end of the Beeching era due more to office politics at BR than anything else. The GC had been transferred from Eastern Region in the late 1950s to London Midland Region, and because the office cultures of the pre-nationalization railroads survived nationalization, LM saw the GC as the enemy within and did everything they could to wreck it.  There have been periodic proposals to revive GC, most recently in 2003, for high speed freight -- but some key parts of the right of way, notably through Leicester and Nottingham, have been lost.   

Looking at other parts of the network, the new Manchester-area electrification is great.  Having been raised in the northwest, I can tell you the Manchester-Preston-Blackpool, Manchester-Liverpool and Liverpool-Wigan gaps in the wire are disruptive to the network and it will be wonderful to finally have through-running electric trains.  But this plan still isn&#039;t complete -- the four-trains-an-hour Liverpool-Widnes-Warrington-Manchester route, and the intercity Manchester-Leeds-York, Manchester-Sheffield and Leeds-Hull routes are also heavily used and overcrowded and still not earmarked for electrification.  Farther south, the cross country routes through Birmingham are also missing from the plan, for example Birmingham-Derby-York, Birmingham-Leicester-Norwich. Birmingham-Oxford and Birmingham-Bristol-Plymouth.  

And it&#039;s kind of typical of the UK that the newly electrified northwestern routes are going to get London&#039;s hand-me-down trains.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Track curvature is a problem on parts of the Midland Main, although, like a lot of Britain&#8217;s Victorian main lines, it was built to a fairly high speed standard to start with compared to its US counterparts.  The engineering on the last parts of the line to be built &#8212; the St. Pancras extension and the Settle-Carlisle section, from the late 1860s to the mid 1870s, is just amazing for the time and not bad by today&#8217;s standards.  The oldest (and curviest) part of the line is from about Leicester to Leeds, though even this stretch is 110mph over large sections (ironically the better-engineered northernmost Settle-Carlisle stretch has been left at a lower speed due first to underinvestment and now due to heavy freight use).  Still, I don&#8217;t think there can be quite as nasty a curve on this line as there is on the West Coast Main at Wolverton, where some numbnut in the late Victorian era decided that rather than expanding the railroad engineering works there to the east of the existing line, it would be better to have the main line do a slalom around the eastern perimeter of the expanded works.  That situation remains to this day, with the siding to access the engineering works on a high-speed alignment and the main line bent like a pretzel.  Nonetheless the Pendolino zips through at what seems to be only a slight reduction in speed.</p>
<p>The sad part is that what was by far the better route through the Midlands, the Great Central with its larger Euro-standard loading gauge and high-speed alignment, was abandoned in 1969 at the end of the Beeching era due more to office politics at BR than anything else. The GC had been transferred from Eastern Region in the late 1950s to London Midland Region, and because the office cultures of the pre-nationalization railroads survived nationalization, LM saw the GC as the enemy within and did everything they could to wreck it.  There have been periodic proposals to revive GC, most recently in 2003, for high speed freight &#8212; but some key parts of the right of way, notably through Leicester and Nottingham, have been lost.   </p>
<p>Looking at other parts of the network, the new Manchester-area electrification is great.  Having been raised in the northwest, I can tell you the Manchester-Preston-Blackpool, Manchester-Liverpool and Liverpool-Wigan gaps in the wire are disruptive to the network and it will be wonderful to finally have through-running electric trains.  But this plan still isn&#8217;t complete &#8212; the four-trains-an-hour Liverpool-Widnes-Warrington-Manchester route, and the intercity Manchester-Leeds-York, Manchester-Sheffield and Leeds-Hull routes are also heavily used and overcrowded and still not earmarked for electrification.  Farther south, the cross country routes through Birmingham are also missing from the plan, for example Birmingham-Derby-York, Birmingham-Leicester-Norwich. Birmingham-Oxford and Birmingham-Bristol-Plymouth.  </p>
<p>And it&#8217;s kind of typical of the UK that the newly electrified northwestern routes are going to get London&#8217;s hand-me-down trains.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Wyss</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/15/united-kingdom-commits-to-further-rail-electrification/#comment-21396</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Wyss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4955#comment-21396</guid>
		<description>I am not familiar with the Midland Main Line, but electfification together with updated signalling could also create decent speed ups using tilting trains. In any case, grades (and there are some) will be handled better with electric traction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not familiar with the Midland Main Line, but electfification together with updated signalling could also create decent speed ups using tilting trains. In any case, grades (and there are some) will be handled better with electric traction.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/15/united-kingdom-commits-to-further-rail-electrification/#comment-21243</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4955#comment-21243</guid>
		<description>Rella, are there any major slow zones on the Midland Main Line, or can it run at 110 mph the whole way? Because if there are slow zones, now would be a good time to eliminate them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rella, are there any major slow zones on the Midland Main Line, or can it run at 110 mph the whole way? Because if there are slow zones, now would be a good time to eliminate them.</p>
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		<title>By: Rella</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/15/united-kingdom-commits-to-further-rail-electrification/#comment-21228</link>
		<dc:creator>Rella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=4955#comment-21228</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure of the benefits of electrifying the Midland Main Line (North of Bedford) unless at the same time money is spent upgrading the route to 140mph+ as at the moment (unless I&#039;m mistaken) the top speed on the route is 110mph. (Slightly off topic, this also indicates to me why Stagecoach MML is suffering).

My view is user-ship gains from London to Nottingham/Derby/Sheffield would be seen sooner if either a branch was created from HS2 or the route was &quot;remodelled&quot; significantly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure of the benefits of electrifying the Midland Main Line (North of Bedford) unless at the same time money is spent upgrading the route to 140mph+ as at the moment (unless I&#8217;m mistaken) the top speed on the route is 110mph. (Slightly off topic, this also indicates to me why Stagecoach MML is suffering).</p>
<p>My view is user-ship gains from London to Nottingham/Derby/Sheffield would be seen sooner if either a branch was created from HS2 or the route was &#8220;remodelled&#8221; significantly.</p>
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