Comments on: Cities Develop Alternative Bus Networks to Combat Perceived Disadvantages of Mainline Routes http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/15/cities-develop-alternative-bus-networks-to-combat-perceived-disadvantages-of-mainline-routes/ Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:43:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Baltimore Slumlord Watch http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/15/cities-develop-alternative-bus-networks-to-combat-perceived-disadvantages-of-mainline-routes/#comment-25964 Baltimore Slumlord Watch Sun, 24 Jan 2010 14:36:31 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5332#comment-25964 As someone who lives in Baltimore and has used the new circulator bus, you couldn't be more wrong with your assessment of its target market. The bus service is being marketed to visitors, whether they're here on business or vacation and then to residents who work downtown and need to get around while they're at work. I don't think race was a factor in marketing the service. As for the route maps, they're not confusing if you live here -- for tourists, they might be a bit convoluted -- but so are most transit system maps, if you've never ridden that system before. Also, the drivers seem to really know the city, unlike MTA drivers who (some, not all) don't seem to know where any of the bus lines go except their own. So far this service has been a welcome added convenience to living downtown -- I'm looking forward to the opening of the remaining two lines! As someone who lives in Baltimore and has used the new circulator bus, you couldn’t be more wrong with your assessment of its target market.

The bus service is being marketed to visitors, whether they’re here on business or vacation and then to residents who work downtown and need to get around while they’re at work. I don’t think race was a factor in marketing the service.

As for the route maps, they’re not confusing if you live here — for tourists, they might be a bit convoluted — but so are most transit system maps, if you’ve never ridden that system before. Also, the drivers seem to really know the city, unlike MTA drivers who (some, not all) don’t seem to know where any of the bus lines go except their own.

So far this service has been a welcome added convenience to living downtown — I’m looking forward to the opening of the remaining two lines!

]]> By: Michael http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/15/cities-develop-alternative-bus-networks-to-combat-perceived-disadvantages-of-mainline-routes/#comment-25798 Michael Fri, 22 Jan 2010 23:36:20 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5332#comment-25798 These downtown/inner city routes like the Charm City Circulator, are helping to bring quality transit to areas which have seen growth. I see nothing wrong with providing a service like this in inner city Baltimore, considering the huge growth in the downtown and surrounding neighbourhood population, etc. These areas offer the high density, and high concentration of regional destinations, and critical mass of people, to beed up transit. Sad but true, you can not have a bus running every 10 minutes in most parts of Baltimore or any American city, because the density is just not there, with the depopulated neighbourhoods. Once the success of downtown spills beyond the central neighbourhoods, than you will see better transit come on board in the outter areas. But it is just natural to start downtown, because it has the critical mass. These downtown/inner city routes like the Charm City Circulator, are helping to bring quality transit to areas which have seen growth.

I see nothing wrong with providing a service like this in inner city Baltimore, considering the huge growth in the downtown and surrounding neighbourhood population, etc.
These areas offer the high density, and high concentration of regional destinations, and critical mass of people, to beed up transit.
Sad but true, you can not have a bus running every 10 minutes in most parts of Baltimore or any American city, because the density is just not there, with the depopulated neighbourhoods. Once the success of downtown spills beyond the central neighbourhoods, than you will see better transit come on board in the outter areas.

But it is just natural to start downtown, because it has the critical mass.

]]> By: Wad http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/15/cities-develop-alternative-bus-networks-to-combat-perceived-disadvantages-of-mainline-routes/#comment-25675 Wad Fri, 22 Jan 2010 06:29:13 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5332#comment-25675 Redrover, the key to DASH's success is to provide a service attractive enough for downtown workers not to drive to lunch. The good reputation was kind of an unexpected blessing. DASH is run by the city of L.A.'s traffic engineers. They realize the value of the buses and how they prevented the "third rush hour" from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m. Redrover, the key to DASH’s success is to provide a service attractive enough for downtown workers not to drive to lunch.

The good reputation was kind of an unexpected blessing.

DASH is run by the city of L.A.’s traffic engineers. They realize the value of the buses and how they prevented the “third rush hour” from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m.

]]> By: Rob B. http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/15/cities-develop-alternative-bus-networks-to-combat-perceived-disadvantages-of-mainline-routes/#comment-25671 Rob B. Fri, 22 Jan 2010 05:30:21 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5332#comment-25671 I think you can add the Philly Phlash to your list. Nice article. http://www.visitphilly.com/tours/philadelphia/phlash/ I think you can add the Philly Phlash to your list. Nice article.

http://www.visitphilly.com/tours/philadelphia/phlash/

]]> By: Redrover http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/15/cities-develop-alternative-bus-networks-to-combat-perceived-disadvantages-of-mainline-routes/#comment-25613 Redrover Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:01:42 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5332#comment-25613 DASH succeeds because it provides good service in the high density (especially of jobs) environment of a large downtown--Downtown Los Angeles. It can be a mile from one part of Downtown LA to another so you need something like DASH. I believe DASH has a pretty good reputation among visitors to Downtown LA as well. The Muni Culturebus was completely different--ill-conceived from the start. It took a meandering route around the city. It was not focused on the downtown area. It was based on the premise that visitors want to go from one cultural site to another to another. From what I can tell visitors want to go to a cultural site, then go to lunch, then maybe go to another one or go back to their hotel etc. The Culture Bus fare was $7, for service that largely duplicated existing Muni service with a $2 fare. In San Francisco, unlike many cities, visitors are willing to and encouraged to use the regular Muni system. DASH succeeds because it provides good service in the high density (especially of jobs) environment of a large downtown–Downtown Los Angeles. It can be a mile from one part of Downtown LA to another so you need something like DASH. I believe DASH has a pretty good reputation among visitors to Downtown LA as well.

The Muni Culturebus was completely different–ill-conceived from the start. It took a meandering route around the city. It was not focused on the downtown area. It was based on the premise that visitors want to go from one cultural site to another to another. From what I can tell visitors want to go to a cultural site, then go to lunch, then maybe go to another one or go back to their hotel etc. The Culture Bus fare was $7, for service that largely duplicated existing Muni service with a $2 fare. In San Francisco, unlike many cities, visitors are willing to and encouraged to use the regular Muni system.

]]> By: Erik H. http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/15/cities-develop-alternative-bus-networks-to-combat-perceived-disadvantages-of-mainline-routes/#comment-25487 Erik H. Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:12:06 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5332#comment-25487 Thanks for this great article. This situation occurs right here in Portland, OR with the Portland Streetcar. It's owned by the City but operated under contract by TriMet, and TriMet does list Streetcar information on the website. However it is marketed as a separate service - the vehicles do not have any TriMet markings whatsoever. Many Streetcar riders would never think about riding a TriMet bus, even though TriMet buses serve South Waterfront, downtown and the Pearl and 23rd Avenue districts; in fact it is a bus that travels up and down 23rd Avenue. And TriMet and the City of Portland actually encourage that the Streetcar encourages "choice riders" while the bus system does not. Thanks for this great article.

This situation occurs right here in Portland, OR with the Portland Streetcar. It’s owned by the City but operated under contract by TriMet, and TriMet does list Streetcar information on the website. However it is marketed as a separate service – the vehicles do not have any TriMet markings whatsoever.

Many Streetcar riders would never think about riding a TriMet bus, even though TriMet buses serve South Waterfront, downtown and the Pearl and 23rd Avenue districts; in fact it is a bus that travels up and down 23rd Avenue. And TriMet and the City of Portland actually encourage that the Streetcar encourages “choice riders” while the bus system does not.

]]> By: Jed http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/15/cities-develop-alternative-bus-networks-to-combat-perceived-disadvantages-of-mainline-routes/#comment-25383 Jed Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:42:04 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5332#comment-25383 Martin, The Charm City Circulator does have NextBus tracking, at least as of a few days ago. However, it would be helpful to see those arrival signs installed at stops as well, for those without smartphones. Martin,

The Charm City Circulator does have NextBus tracking, at least as of a few days ago. However, it would be helpful to see those arrival signs installed at stops as well, for those without smartphones.

]]> By: GRL http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/15/cities-develop-alternative-bus-networks-to-combat-perceived-disadvantages-of-mainline-routes/#comment-25346 GRL Tue, 19 Jan 2010 00:26:13 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5332#comment-25346 In the case of RTA (the line I am most familiar with), the issue is one of need. For example, there are two lines that cover the area around the UC Riverside campus. For the most part, these lines cover areas that are fairly easily walkable, negating the need of these lines. The other lines, from what I understand, have similar problems (one seems to serve no purpose other than to attach the county courthouse to a parking lot, for example). In the case of RTA (the line I am most familiar with), the issue is one of need. For example, there are two lines that cover the area around the UC Riverside campus. For the most part, these lines cover areas that are fairly easily walkable, negating the need of these lines. The other lines, from what I understand, have similar problems (one seems to serve no purpose other than to attach the county courthouse to a parking lot, for example).

]]> By: John http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/15/cities-develop-alternative-bus-networks-to-combat-perceived-disadvantages-of-mainline-routes/#comment-25334 John Mon, 18 Jan 2010 21:59:26 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5332#comment-25334 Why don't they serveo the ferry terminal? Why don’t they serveo the ferry terminal?

]]> By: BeyondDC http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/15/cities-develop-alternative-bus-networks-to-combat-perceived-disadvantages-of-mainline-routes/#comment-25332 BeyondDC Mon, 18 Jan 2010 21:53:20 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5332#comment-25332 Winston, I think you missed my point. I'm totally in favor of differentiated service in general, but it has to be in a modern-looking vehicle. The message should be "look how great transit should be", not "transit is something you only ride in a theme park". The former helps the rest of your system, the latter hurts it. It's all about how you carry out your differentiated service. Winston, I think you missed my point. I’m totally in favor of differentiated service in general, but it has to be in a modern-looking vehicle. The message should be “look how great transit should be”, not “transit is something you only ride in a theme park”. The former helps the rest of your system, the latter hurts it.

It’s all about how you carry out your differentiated service.

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