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	<title>Comments on: Central Japan Railway Enters Competition for U.S. High-Speed Market</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/25/central-japan-railway-enters-competition-for-u-s-high-speed-market/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/25/central-japan-railway-enters-competition-for-u-s-high-speed-market/</link>
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		<title>By: Jake Jacobson</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/25/central-japan-railway-enters-competition-for-u-s-high-speed-market/#comment-52996</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake Jacobson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jul 2010 03:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5513#comment-52996</guid>
		<description>GO JAPAN! I&#039;ve never gone wrong riding Japanese trains best in the world if you ask me! If we are going to to this we need to do it right. JR all the way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GO JAPAN! I&#8217;ve never gone wrong riding Japanese trains best in the world if you ask me! If we are going to to this we need to do it right. JR all the way.</p>
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		<title>By: Tran Duc Anh Vu</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/25/central-japan-railway-enters-competition-for-u-s-high-speed-market/#comment-46825</link>
		<dc:creator>Tran Duc Anh Vu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 14:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5513#comment-46825</guid>
		<description>This does not make sense, because trains are all on air cushion now and are much faster than conventional trains.  The U.S. should buy the German Maglev.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This does not make sense, because trains are all on air cushion now and are much faster than conventional trains.  The U.S. should buy the German Maglev.</p>
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		<title>By: J</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/25/central-japan-railway-enters-competition-for-u-s-high-speed-market/#comment-26710</link>
		<dc:creator>J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 22:33:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5513#comment-26710</guid>
		<description>I dont give a damn who runs the train as long as I can purchase my tickets at amtrak.com. It would be madness if every HSR line required knowing the operating company, and if going from Miami to Tampa required going through two different agencies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dont give a damn who runs the train as long as I can purchase my tickets at amtrak.com. It would be madness if every HSR line required knowing the operating company, and if going from Miami to Tampa required going through two different agencies.</p>
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		<title>By: Brandi</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/25/central-japan-railway-enters-competition-for-u-s-high-speed-market/#comment-26386</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 04:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5513#comment-26386</guid>
		<description>Appears that California is getting about $2.5 Billion, Florida about $1 Billion, Illinois, $1.2 Billion, and Ohio, North Carolina, Washington are going to get about $.5 Billion each.  Guess they let the news out early. I loved Obama&#039;s quote about high speed rail in the SOTU.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Appears that California is getting about $2.5 Billion, Florida about $1 Billion, Illinois, $1.2 Billion, and Ohio, North Carolina, Washington are going to get about $.5 Billion each.  Guess they let the news out early. I loved Obama&#8217;s quote about high speed rail in the SOTU.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Wyss</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/25/central-japan-railway-enters-competition-for-u-s-high-speed-market/#comment-26252</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Wyss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 19:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5513#comment-26252</guid>
		<description>@Mason Hicks: I agree that the N700&#039;s aesthetics are something to get used to (but that happens all over the place).

One of the main reasons why the Japanese high speed trains as well as the Velaro-types are not articulated is because they have distributed drives. In fact, there are not many types of vehicles coming to my mind where a driving truck is located under an articulation (and the ones coming to my mind are light rail vehicles as of today&#039;s understanding). The AGV is therefore a very new development.

Another reason why articulation is not the first choice is the axle load, which in France is limited to 17 t. This is also a reason why the elements in a TGV are rather short. At the time of the ICE 1, all the &quot;add-on stuff&quot; requested by the DB got the cars to be too heavy. The next reason for individual cars is the possibility to change the consist in a train set. The ICE 1 can be found between 10 and 14 cars long, depending on the service they are used (and the availability of cars). The ICEs are, however, not conventionally coupled, and can be separated only in the workshops.

The axleload issue may probably be the reason to kill articulated high-speed trains in the US, unless there will be a considerable rethinking of the regulations; the train may simply get too obese. 

What made Eschede to the real disaster was that the car which derailed hit the pillar of a bridge which made the bridge collapse, and fall onto the moving train. The cars ahead of the one which derailed remained completely unharmed. Also note that this did NOT happen on a high speed line, but a conventional line. 

I don&#039;t have access to the reports about the disaster right now, but if I remember correctly, the wheel broke about 2 km before the truck got deviated on a switch of an interchange between the tracks and derailed the car. And then, that pillar of the bridge was about 200 m or so later. The lead power unit got torn off the trainset after the impact with the pillar.

That means that the train has been stable on regular track, and it was an irregularity which caused the disaster.

The cause of the derailment could as well happen with an articulated trainset, and it could not be excluded that an articulation could have gotten far enough outside of the loading gauge to hit the pillar of the bridge.

About US standards for high speed trains, I really hope that they do follow existing standards (be it Japanese, be it French, be it German), instead of inventing their own ones; this can save a considerable amount of money, and would give some assurance that the system works (although surprises are always possible, see the breakdowns of the Eurostar TGVs this winter).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mason Hicks: I agree that the N700&#8242;s aesthetics are something to get used to (but that happens all over the place).</p>
<p>One of the main reasons why the Japanese high speed trains as well as the Velaro-types are not articulated is because they have distributed drives. In fact, there are not many types of vehicles coming to my mind where a driving truck is located under an articulation (and the ones coming to my mind are light rail vehicles as of today&#8217;s understanding). The AGV is therefore a very new development.</p>
<p>Another reason why articulation is not the first choice is the axle load, which in France is limited to 17 t. This is also a reason why the elements in a TGV are rather short. At the time of the ICE 1, all the &#8220;add-on stuff&#8221; requested by the DB got the cars to be too heavy. The next reason for individual cars is the possibility to change the consist in a train set. The ICE 1 can be found between 10 and 14 cars long, depending on the service they are used (and the availability of cars). The ICEs are, however, not conventionally coupled, and can be separated only in the workshops.</p>
<p>The axleload issue may probably be the reason to kill articulated high-speed trains in the US, unless there will be a considerable rethinking of the regulations; the train may simply get too obese. </p>
<p>What made Eschede to the real disaster was that the car which derailed hit the pillar of a bridge which made the bridge collapse, and fall onto the moving train. The cars ahead of the one which derailed remained completely unharmed. Also note that this did NOT happen on a high speed line, but a conventional line. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have access to the reports about the disaster right now, but if I remember correctly, the wheel broke about 2 km before the truck got deviated on a switch of an interchange between the tracks and derailed the car. And then, that pillar of the bridge was about 200 m or so later. The lead power unit got torn off the trainset after the impact with the pillar.</p>
<p>That means that the train has been stable on regular track, and it was an irregularity which caused the disaster.</p>
<p>The cause of the derailment could as well happen with an articulated trainset, and it could not be excluded that an articulation could have gotten far enough outside of the loading gauge to hit the pillar of the bridge.</p>
<p>About US standards for high speed trains, I really hope that they do follow existing standards (be it Japanese, be it French, be it German), instead of inventing their own ones; this can save a considerable amount of money, and would give some assurance that the system works (although surprises are always possible, see the breakdowns of the Eurostar TGVs this winter).</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/25/central-japan-railway-enters-competition-for-u-s-high-speed-market/#comment-26248</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 18:49:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5513#comment-26248</guid>
		<description>The N700 does tilt - about 1-2 degrees, but it&#039;s still a tilt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The N700 does tilt &#8211; about 1-2 degrees, but it&#8217;s still a tilt.</p>
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		<title>By: Mason Hicks</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/25/central-japan-railway-enters-competition-for-u-s-high-speed-market/#comment-26238</link>
		<dc:creator>Mason Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 17:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5513#comment-26238</guid>
		<description>@Max Wyss)I was merely making a personal opinion comment on the trainset&#039;s asthetic. I didn&#039;t intend for it to be considered an analysis. Having said that I will point out a weakness that I see in that like the German ICE, none of Japan&#039;s HSR trainsets are of articulated construction. Dist referred to the ICE crash of Eschede. I think it was 1998? I have heard it suggested that had that been an articulated TGV, and not an un-articulated ICE, we might not have even seen the event on the news. The TGV has had several complete derailments, one at near full operating speed, with few or no injuries. The Eschede disaster was at the very least, made significantly worse due to the fact that the train was conventionally coupled, and it experienced mutiple, near-instantanious jackknifes. Had it been of articulated architecture, it probably would&#039;ve done a much better job of staying in line. Of course, I believe the Eschede train hit a bridge pier, and an at-speed impact with concrete is not a small deal, but it did so after the first car decoupled from the lead locomotive; still possible with current TGV sets but not with the soon-to-be operational AGV. I would like to see US HSR standards incourage, if not mandate the use of articulated train architecture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Max Wyss)I was merely making a personal opinion comment on the trainset&#8217;s asthetic. I didn&#8217;t intend for it to be considered an analysis. Having said that I will point out a weakness that I see in that like the German ICE, none of Japan&#8217;s HSR trainsets are of articulated construction. Dist referred to the ICE crash of Eschede. I think it was 1998? I have heard it suggested that had that been an articulated TGV, and not an un-articulated ICE, we might not have even seen the event on the news. The TGV has had several complete derailments, one at near full operating speed, with few or no injuries. The Eschede disaster was at the very least, made significantly worse due to the fact that the train was conventionally coupled, and it experienced mutiple, near-instantanious jackknifes. Had it been of articulated architecture, it probably would&#8217;ve done a much better job of staying in line. Of course, I believe the Eschede train hit a bridge pier, and an at-speed impact with concrete is not a small deal, but it did so after the first car decoupled from the lead locomotive; still possible with current TGV sets but not with the soon-to-be operational AGV. I would like to see US HSR standards incourage, if not mandate the use of articulated train architecture.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Wyss</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/25/central-japan-railway-enters-competition-for-u-s-high-speed-market/#comment-26222</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Wyss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 10:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5513#comment-26222</guid>
		<description>@Mason Hicks: 

&gt; BTW: I’ve always thought that the N700 was a 
&gt; ridiculous looking contraption. the small 
&gt; passenger windows are not very inviting 
&gt; (airliner-like), and let’s not even talk 
&gt; about that nose.

Actually, that nose is among the best you can get when it comes to aerodynamics and aerodynamic noise. As the Japanese high speed lines cross quite a few high-density (for US standards anyway) residential areas, the noise emission regulations are quite strict. And at speeds above 200 km/h, aerodynamic noise is the biggest component of the total noise.

The windows look small, but they look to me having a similar height as the Amfleet cars (I will stand corrected if I happen to be wrong on this).

@Alon Levi: the N700 does not tilt. It may have an active suspension which can compensate the leaning outwards in curves, keeping the vehicle within the loading gauge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mason Hicks: </p>
<p>&gt; BTW: I’ve always thought that the N700 was a<br />
&gt; ridiculous looking contraption. the small<br />
&gt; passenger windows are not very inviting<br />
&gt; (airliner-like), and let’s not even talk<br />
&gt; about that nose.</p>
<p>Actually, that nose is among the best you can get when it comes to aerodynamics and aerodynamic noise. As the Japanese high speed lines cross quite a few high-density (for US standards anyway) residential areas, the noise emission regulations are quite strict. And at speeds above 200 km/h, aerodynamic noise is the biggest component of the total noise.</p>
<p>The windows look small, but they look to me having a similar height as the Amfleet cars (I will stand corrected if I happen to be wrong on this).</p>
<p>@Alon Levi: the N700 does not tilt. It may have an active suspension which can compensate the leaning outwards in curves, keeping the vehicle within the loading gauge.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/25/central-japan-railway-enters-competition-for-u-s-high-speed-market/#comment-26216</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 09:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5513#comment-26216</guid>
		<description>The 10-car, 2+2 Velaro RUS has 600 seats, and has a bistro. At full size, it would have a little under a thousand.

A full-length single-deck TGV train has 750 seats, but that comes from the locomotive-trailer configuration; newer trains, including the AGV, use multiple units and have seating in all cars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 10-car, 2+2 Velaro RUS has 600 seats, and has a bistro. At full size, it would have a little under a thousand.</p>
<p>A full-length single-deck TGV train has 750 seats, but that comes from the locomotive-trailer configuration; newer trains, including the AGV, use multiple units and have seating in all cars.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew in Ezo</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/25/central-japan-railway-enters-competition-for-u-s-high-speed-market/#comment-26213</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew in Ezo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5513#comment-26213</guid>
		<description>3+2 seating is not a given- the interiors can be configured in any way the operator desires.  Yes, the windows are small (but much bigger than airline windows) on the N700, but I didn&#039;t notice the difference much when actually sitting inside, like I did three weeks ago on a Nozomi service between Shin-Osaka and Tokyo.  Anyway, these trains are for getting people for point A to point B, fast.  If you want big windows, take the Coast Starlight and sit in the lounge car.  As for the nose, I don&#039;t understand all the fuss (same thing Euros have about sliding doors vs. their plug doors)- the nose is designed to reduce boom in narrow Japan-spec tunnels.  The nose can be restyled (&quot;prettified&quot;) for N.A. conditions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>3+2 seating is not a given- the interiors can be configured in any way the operator desires.  Yes, the windows are small (but much bigger than airline windows) on the N700, but I didn&#8217;t notice the difference much when actually sitting inside, like I did three weeks ago on a Nozomi service between Shin-Osaka and Tokyo.  Anyway, these trains are for getting people for point A to point B, fast.  If you want big windows, take the Coast Starlight and sit in the lounge car.  As for the nose, I don&#8217;t understand all the fuss (same thing Euros have about sliding doors vs. their plug doors)- the nose is designed to reduce boom in narrow Japan-spec tunnels.  The nose can be restyled (&#8220;prettified&#8221;) for N.A. conditions.</p>
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