Comments on: Expanding Transit Access to Southeast Queens http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/22/expanding-transit-access-to-southeast-queens/ Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:19:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Scions http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/22/expanding-transit-access-to-southeast-queens/#comment-299372 Scions Sat, 13 Aug 2011 21:28:57 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5461#comment-299372 Wouldn't it be awesome if all people movers would be replaced by <a>PRT</a>. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7hgipbHBK8 Wouldn’t it be awesome if all people movers would be replaced by PRT.

]]> By: MirzaA http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/22/expanding-transit-access-to-southeast-queens/#comment-64497 MirzaA Wed, 01 Sep 2010 04:52:11 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5461#comment-64497 I am not sure who these changes are supposed to benefit. I live in the Rockaways further south of the area described here, and commute times to Manhattan are atrocious. It takes me about 53 minutes under ideal conditions (off-peak hours, no trains being held in stations by dispatchers or police, no waiting for the South Channel bridge to close after opening to let boats through etc) for me to get from Beach 67th St (the last stop in the Rockaways on a Manhattan-bound A) to West 4th St. It also takes just about forever to get to Jamaica (often lumped together with the Rockaways as southeast Queens), either going through Manhattan on the F (transferring at Jay St or West 4th St) or taking the Q22 and Q113 buses. The fastest way to get to Jamaica from the Rockaways is by taking the AirTrain, assuming one is willing to pay $10 for the privilege (fare is collected at both entry and exit and is only $5 if getting on or off at a JFK terminal). However, even this is not all the fast, taking about 15 minutes to get to Jamaica from Howard Beach, including a transfer. If a line is built from Howard Beach to Jamaica parallel to the AirTrain, it will still take at least 8 minutes to get from Howard Beach to Jamaica (Sutphin Boulevard). The A train takes 12 minutes to get from Beach 67th to Howard Beach, so the total length of a journey from Beach 67th to Penn Station would be about 40 minutes (12 minutes to Howard Beach, 8 minutes to Jamaica and 20 minutes on the LIRR from Jamaica). Of course, with the two transfers (unless a through train is run from the Rockaways to Jamaica) this will probably be at least 45 minutes. The one seat ride on the A to Penn Station is about 57-58 minutes. Is it really worth building all this new infrastructure to cut a commute by 12 minutes? People going to Lower Manhattan will need to take the subway down from 34th St for another 7-10 minutes, negating the benefits altogether. Also, the line that Robert Kozma mentioned has been repeatedly hyped as a one seat, 40 minute ride from the Rockaways to Penn Station. This too, is kind of pointless. While it will shave about 17 minutes off taking the A to 34th St, there will be no benefit whatsoever to someone going to Lower Manhattan, instead having to transfer to a downtown subway train and losing up to 10 minutes. Not everyone is trying to get to Midtown; however, even Lower Manhattan or Downtown Brooklyn is a hard slog on the subway from anywhere in Southeast Queens. I am not sure a solution really exists. In any case, there is massive NIMBY-ism from the residents along the abandoned LIRR line, and it is highly unlikely to ever be turned into use for the subway/LIRR again, with all indications being it will be used for a Queens version of the High Line. I understand that this article focused on the neighborhoods of Locust Manor, South Ozone Park etc and not the Rockaways, but there are over 120,000 people in the Rockaways that could use better commuting options, and any discussion of transit improvement in SE Queens should take them into account. However, like I said, I am not sure any of the currently floated solutions are any good. I am not sure who these changes are supposed to benefit. I live in the Rockaways further south of the area described here, and commute times to Manhattan are atrocious. It takes me about 53 minutes under ideal conditions (off-peak hours, no trains being held in stations by dispatchers or police, no waiting for the South Channel bridge to close after opening to let boats through etc) for me to get from Beach 67th St (the last stop in the Rockaways on a Manhattan-bound A) to West 4th St. It also takes just about forever to get to Jamaica (often lumped together with the Rockaways as southeast Queens), either going through Manhattan on the F (transferring at Jay St or West 4th St) or taking the Q22 and Q113 buses.

The fastest way to get to Jamaica from the Rockaways is by taking the AirTrain, assuming one is willing to pay $10 for the privilege (fare is collected at both entry and exit and is only $5 if getting on or off at a JFK terminal). However, even this is not all the fast, taking about 15 minutes to get to Jamaica from Howard Beach, including a transfer. If a line is built from Howard Beach to Jamaica parallel to the AirTrain, it will still take at least 8 minutes to get from Howard Beach to Jamaica (Sutphin Boulevard). The A train takes 12 minutes to get from Beach 67th to Howard Beach, so the total length of a journey from Beach 67th to Penn Station would be about 40 minutes (12 minutes to Howard Beach, 8 minutes to Jamaica and 20 minutes on the LIRR from Jamaica). Of course, with the two transfers (unless a through train is run from the Rockaways to Jamaica) this will probably be at least 45 minutes. The one seat ride on the A to Penn Station is about 57-58 minutes. Is it really worth building all this new infrastructure to cut a commute by 12 minutes? People going to Lower Manhattan will need to take the subway down from 34th St for another 7-10 minutes, negating the benefits altogether.

Also, the line that Robert Kozma mentioned has been repeatedly hyped as a one seat, 40 minute ride from the Rockaways to Penn Station. This too, is kind of pointless. While it will shave about 17 minutes off taking the A to 34th St, there will be no benefit whatsoever to someone going to Lower Manhattan, instead having to transfer to a downtown subway train and losing up to 10 minutes. Not everyone is trying to get to Midtown; however, even Lower Manhattan or Downtown Brooklyn is a hard slog on the subway from anywhere in Southeast Queens. I am not sure a solution really exists. In any case, there is massive NIMBY-ism from the residents along the abandoned LIRR line, and it is highly unlikely to ever be turned into use for the subway/LIRR again, with all indications being it will be used for a Queens version of the High Line.

I understand that this article focused on the neighborhoods of Locust Manor, South Ozone Park etc and not the Rockaways, but there are over 120,000 people in the Rockaways that could use better commuting options, and any discussion of transit improvement in SE Queens should take them into account. However, like I said, I am not sure any of the currently floated solutions are any good.

]]> By: Robert Kozma http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/22/expanding-transit-access-to-southeast-queens/#comment-31437 Robert Kozma Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:32:50 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5461#comment-31437 All quite laudable, i.e. providing better LIRR service to southeast Queens. But the one thing missing from this picture? We still do not have a one seat ride from JFK to midtown. In this regard why is it that almost everyone forgets the abandoned and still largely intact Rockaway Line of he LIRR, which runs through central Queens north of the present Aquaduct station on the "A" subway line north to a junction with the LIRR four track mainline to Penn Station just east of 63rd Drive in Rego Park. By resurrecting this line a one seat ride between midtown (Penn and, eventually via East side Access, GC) and JFK would finally become a reality, with a running time of about 40 minutes. And there would be several intermediate stops (as there once were) at Ozone Park, Woodhaven, Brooklyn Manor (Jamaica Ave), Parkside (Metropolitan Ave) and 63rd Drive-Rego Park, providing service to neighborhoods along the line, some without any raid rail transit at this time. So too, a connection (at Woodhaven Jct) also exists fro a one seat ride between Brooklyn-Flatbush/Atlantic Aves LIRR station and JFK using the same revived line. All quite laudable, i.e. providing better LIRR service to southeast Queens. But the one thing missing from this picture?
We still do not have a one seat ride from JFK to midtown. In this regard why is it that almost everyone forgets the abandoned and still largely intact Rockaway Line of he LIRR, which runs through central Queens north of the present Aquaduct station on the “A” subway line north to a junction with the LIRR four track mainline to Penn Station just east of 63rd Drive in Rego Park. By resurrecting this line a one seat ride between midtown (Penn and, eventually via East side Access, GC) and JFK would finally become a reality, with a running time of about 40 minutes. And there would be several intermediate stops (as there once were) at Ozone Park, Woodhaven, Brooklyn Manor (Jamaica Ave), Parkside (Metropolitan Ave) and 63rd Drive-Rego Park, providing service to neighborhoods along the line, some without any raid rail transit at this time.
So too, a connection (at Woodhaven Jct) also exists fro a one seat ride between Brooklyn-Flatbush/Atlantic Aves LIRR station and JFK using the same revived line.

]]> By: Alon Levy http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/22/expanding-transit-access-to-southeast-queens/#comment-30629 Alon Levy Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:07:00 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5461#comment-30629 Cameron, you're comparing apples to oranges. $170 only gets you as far as city line in New York, and does not include the extra fare you'd need to pay to switch to the subway. €122.10 gets you anywhere in Ile de France, and can be used on the Métro as well. €72 gets you only within city limits in Berlin, but a) it's good for the U-Bahn as well as the S-Bahn and b) Berlin's city limits are more liberal than New York's, and include almost the entire S-Bahn network. By the way: where is your median income data for Paris and Berlin for? I've been looking for this data for European cities forever. Do you have a link? I'm not doubting - I think both figures make sense - but I'm just curious. Cameron, you’re comparing apples to oranges. $170 only gets you as far as city line in New York, and does not include the extra fare you’d need to pay to switch to the subway. €122.10 gets you anywhere in Ile de France, and can be used on the Métro as well. €72 gets you only within city limits in Berlin, but a) it’s good for the U-Bahn as well as the S-Bahn and b) Berlin’s city limits are more liberal than New York’s, and include almost the entire S-Bahn network.

By the way: where is your median income data for Paris and Berlin for? I’ve been looking for this data for European cities forever. Do you have a link? I’m not doubting – I think both figures make sense – but I’m just curious.

]]> By: Cameron slick http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/22/expanding-transit-access-to-southeast-queens/#comment-30580 Cameron slick Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:45:52 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5461#comment-30580 There's no use in converting euros to dollars to justify their economy. The comparison should be made to a more regional metric, like percentage of income spent on transportation. Using median monthly income: Berlin S-Bahn AB: €72/€1,941 (3.7%) New York MTA City: $170/$4,170 (4.1%) Paris RER: €122.10/€3913.39 (3.1%) Using median income may not be a wholly fair metric, either, but with the exchange always fluctuating, but due to New York's greater wealth, it's not as ridiculously expensive as implied. There’s no use in converting euros to dollars to justify their economy. The comparison should be made to a more regional metric, like percentage of income spent on transportation.

Using median monthly income:
Berlin S-Bahn AB: €72/€1,941 (3.7%)
New York MTA City: $170/$4,170 (4.1%)
Paris RER: €122.10/€3913.39 (3.1%)

Using median income may not be a wholly fair metric, either, but with the exchange always fluctuating, but due to New York’s greater wealth, it’s not as ridiculously expensive as implied.

]]> By: shad http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/22/expanding-transit-access-to-southeast-queens/#comment-30533 shad Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:38:33 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5461#comment-30533 i agree with harold about needing to get to queens college faster. i agree with harold about needing to get to queens college faster.

]]> By: Harold http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/22/expanding-transit-access-to-southeast-queens/#comment-30471 Harold Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:20:19 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5461#comment-30471 There needs to be a quicker way to get to Queens college. There needs to be a quicker way to get to Queens college.

]]> By: Russell Warshay http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/22/expanding-transit-access-to-southeast-queens/#comment-30423 Russell Warshay Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:56:21 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5461#comment-30423 Yonah, you really did an excellent job with the graphics. Where did you get the data? Yonah, you really did an excellent job with the graphics. Where did you get the data?

]]> By: Yonah Freemark http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/22/expanding-transit-access-to-southeast-queens/#comment-30295 Yonah Freemark Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:29:47 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5461#comment-30295 Thanks for the compliments, guys! Adobe Illustrator. None of those pesky GIS tools. Thanks for the compliments, guys! Adobe Illustrator. None of those pesky GIS tools.

]]> By: JMBX http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/22/expanding-transit-access-to-southeast-queens/#comment-30276 JMBX Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:02:42 +0000 http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5461#comment-30276 Yeah, I've always wondered how you make your maps, they are amazing indeed. Yeah, I’ve always wondered how you make your maps, they are amazing indeed.

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