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	<title>Comments on: Controversial Portland Columbia River Crossing Under Pressure to Move Forward, Despite Flaws</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/23/controversial-portland-columbia-river-crossing-under-pressure-to-move-forward-despite-flaws/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/23/controversial-portland-columbia-river-crossing-under-pressure-to-move-forward-despite-flaws/</link>
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		<title>By: Michael Andersen</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/23/controversial-portland-columbia-river-crossing-under-pressure-to-move-forward-despite-flaws/#comment-42464</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Andersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 07:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5416#comment-42464</guid>
		<description>This analysis is generally top-notch, Yonah, but the biggest flaw is your assumption that light rail use is underestimating trips to downtown. That job is done very well now by C-Tran, the Clark County transit agency, which runs a fleet of very fast and popular express buses straight to downtown from several transit hubs in Clark County. A 40-minute light rail ride across the bridge would be ridiculous to many downtown workers as long as the buses are available. The virtue of a rail extension, therefore, would be for non-commute trips and shorter trips to jobs and homes outside Portland&#039;s downtown core.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This analysis is generally top-notch, Yonah, but the biggest flaw is your assumption that light rail use is underestimating trips to downtown. That job is done very well now by C-Tran, the Clark County transit agency, which runs a fleet of very fast and popular express buses straight to downtown from several transit hubs in Clark County. A 40-minute light rail ride across the bridge would be ridiculous to many downtown workers as long as the buses are available. The virtue of a rail extension, therefore, would be for non-commute trips and shorter trips to jobs and homes outside Portland&#8217;s downtown core.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Andersen</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/23/controversial-portland-columbia-river-crossing-under-pressure-to-move-forward-despite-flaws/#comment-42462</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Andersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 07:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5416#comment-42462</guid>
		<description>It is inaccurate to say that people who live in Washington are dodging taxes. It&#039;s just the opposite; in my experience, people who live in Clark County do so because the schools are better and property is relatively cheaper. In fact, Clark County is the 8th largest contributor to Oregon’s income taxes, because Washington residents who work in Oregon are liable for Washington’s relatively higher property taxes, Washington’s sales taxes and Oregon’s highest-in-the-nation income taxes.

I live in Portland, where I moved from Clark County because I prefer higher taxes and urban life. But I&#039;m just sayin&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is inaccurate to say that people who live in Washington are dodging taxes. It&#8217;s just the opposite; in my experience, people who live in Clark County do so because the schools are better and property is relatively cheaper. In fact, Clark County is the 8th largest contributor to Oregon’s income taxes, because Washington residents who work in Oregon are liable for Washington’s relatively higher property taxes, Washington’s sales taxes and Oregon’s highest-in-the-nation income taxes.</p>
<p>I live in Portland, where I moved from Clark County because I prefer higher taxes and urban life. But I&#8217;m just sayin&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Andersen</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/23/controversial-portland-columbia-river-crossing-under-pressure-to-move-forward-despite-flaws/#comment-42461</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Andersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 07:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5416#comment-42461</guid>
		<description>Poncho, you assume that Clark County residents who work in Portland don&#039;t have to pay Oregon income tax, presumably because that would make sense. However, you&#039;re wrong. In fact, Clark County is the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.oregon.gov/DOR/STATS/101-406-09-toc.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;8th largest contributor to Oregon&#039;s income taxes&lt;/a&gt;, because Washington residents who work in Oregon are liable for Washington&#039;s relatively higher property taxes, Washington&#039;s sales taxes and Oregon&#039;s highest-in-the-nation income taxes.

I don&#039;t disagree with your other analyses. But this is a very common mistake Oregonians make, and it&#039;s unjustly poisoned the debate about the bridge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Poncho, you assume that Clark County residents who work in Portland don&#8217;t have to pay Oregon income tax, presumably because that would make sense. However, you&#8217;re wrong. In fact, Clark County is the <a href="http://www.oregon.gov/DOR/STATS/101-406-09-toc.shtml" rel="nofollow">8th largest contributor to Oregon&#8217;s income taxes</a>, because Washington residents who work in Oregon are liable for Washington&#8217;s relatively higher property taxes, Washington&#8217;s sales taxes and Oregon&#8217;s highest-in-the-nation income taxes.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t disagree with your other analyses. But this is a very common mistake Oregonians make, and it&#8217;s unjustly poisoned the debate about the bridge.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/23/controversial-portland-columbia-river-crossing-under-pressure-to-move-forward-despite-flaws/#comment-31888</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 07:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5416#comment-31888</guid>
		<description>This has been suggested by a bazillion people and aggressively ignored by Oregon and Washington DOT.  :-(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has been suggested by a bazillion people and aggressively ignored by Oregon and Washington DOT.  :-(</p>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/23/controversial-portland-columbia-river-crossing-under-pressure-to-move-forward-despite-flaws/#comment-31887</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 07:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5416#comment-31887</guid>
		<description>Indeed.  Some counterproposals to the CRC have included a new *arterial* bridge for traffic to the island (allowing the elimination of many entry and exit ramps which complicate the CRC), the MAX extension (picking up a large number of passengers), and a new freeway bridge the *same size* as the existing one, or with an extra pair of HOV-only lanes.  

Plus, perhaps, improvements to the BNSF bridge for long-distance rail service and for *freight* service; freight movement should not be by truck except over short distances, and pulling all the long-distance truck traffic onto the rails is desirable.

In contrast, the 12-lane monstrosity is a fright; the 10-lane monstrosity is still a fright.  Perhaps an 8-lane monstrosity would be an acceptable compromise.  In actual fact, more than two lanes each way never makes sense on a freeway, though you may need a third lane to accomodate entry and exit ramps -- the current bridge size is more than adequate for a freeway, and the needs are elsewhere (local arterial connection, transit connection, freight rail connection).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed.  Some counterproposals to the CRC have included a new *arterial* bridge for traffic to the island (allowing the elimination of many entry and exit ramps which complicate the CRC), the MAX extension (picking up a large number of passengers), and a new freeway bridge the *same size* as the existing one, or with an extra pair of HOV-only lanes.  </p>
<p>Plus, perhaps, improvements to the BNSF bridge for long-distance rail service and for *freight* service; freight movement should not be by truck except over short distances, and pulling all the long-distance truck traffic onto the rails is desirable.</p>
<p>In contrast, the 12-lane monstrosity is a fright; the 10-lane monstrosity is still a fright.  Perhaps an 8-lane monstrosity would be an acceptable compromise.  In actual fact, more than two lanes each way never makes sense on a freeway, though you may need a third lane to accomodate entry and exit ramps &#8212; the current bridge size is more than adequate for a freeway, and the needs are elsewhere (local arterial connection, transit connection, freight rail connection).</p>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/23/controversial-portland-columbia-river-crossing-under-pressure-to-move-forward-despite-flaws/#comment-30833</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 07:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5416#comment-30833</guid>
		<description>Wouldn&#039;t Portland be a great city if only it were more like LA? (sarcasm).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t Portland be a great city if only it were more like LA? (sarcasm).</p>
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		<title>By: Andy K</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/23/controversial-portland-columbia-river-crossing-under-pressure-to-move-forward-despite-flaws/#comment-30408</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5416#comment-30408</guid>
		<description>Yeah, that tax situation is crazy.  Makes me want to relocate to the area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that tax situation is crazy.  Makes me want to relocate to the area.</p>
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		<title>By: DBX</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/23/controversial-portland-columbia-river-crossing-under-pressure-to-move-forward-despite-flaws/#comment-30361</link>
		<dc:creator>DBX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 06:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5416#comment-30361</guid>
		<description>As long as this bizarre juxtaposition of tax rates remains between Oregon and Washington -- the only place in the US where you have this arrangement within a metropolitan area, by the way, with the others being locations like Montana-Wyoming in the middle of the high plains or Oregon-Nevada in the middle of the desert -- there&#039;s really no reasonable alternative to putting tolls on all the Columbia river crossings. That would appropriately cover the cost of these investments and discourage tax avoidance games by people in the suburbs on the north side of the Columbia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as this bizarre juxtaposition of tax rates remains between Oregon and Washington &#8212; the only place in the US where you have this arrangement within a metropolitan area, by the way, with the others being locations like Montana-Wyoming in the middle of the high plains or Oregon-Nevada in the middle of the desert &#8212; there&#8217;s really no reasonable alternative to putting tolls on all the Columbia river crossings. That would appropriately cover the cost of these investments and discourage tax avoidance games by people in the suburbs on the north side of the Columbia.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Parker</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/23/controversial-portland-columbia-river-crossing-under-pressure-to-move-forward-despite-flaws/#comment-30284</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Parker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5416#comment-30284</guid>
		<description>Engineer Scotty and Poncho have a good grasp of the issues.  Particularly the tax structure, along with the very different growth management policies of both states are a huge factor in the creation of the problem.

Given the constraints of the freeway network in inner Portland, building this new bridge at the scale proposed would simply move the problem downstream.  Doesn&#039;t seem like a smart use of billions of dollars, does it?

The CRC would seem to be an ideal application for congestion pricing.  This would encourage travelers in Vancouver destined for downtown Portland to use a high frequency MAX connection, particularly during peak periods where the tolls would be most expensive.  Tolls would help cover a portion of the capital cost.  Drivers who now make short, discretionary auto trips across the bridge (thereby, clogging the highway for longer haul travelers and freight traffic) would experience a strong price signal to adjust their trip making patterns. If the price were set to continually manage demand on the bridge at all hours, the resulting bridge could likely be reduced significantly in scope, thereby saving taxpayer dollars, and of course time not stuck in congestion.  And still, commuters could opt to drive and pay the toll at any time or take the attractive MAX option into downtown Portland for jobs and entertainment, which supports the investments that the Portland region has been making for several decades.

Is there any indication that a congestion pricing strategy might be considered, perhaps in tandem with the 205 bridge, especially given Portland&#039;s long term sustainability goals and the USDOT/EPA/HUD emphasis on livability?  A challenging, multi-modal, bi-state issue such as this is exactly why we desperately need a visionary new national transportation policy with that lays out a vision, with principles, goals, and metrics that would help ensure that smarter decisions are made on projects like the CRC.  Unfortunately, we are still waiting for that...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Engineer Scotty and Poncho have a good grasp of the issues.  Particularly the tax structure, along with the very different growth management policies of both states are a huge factor in the creation of the problem.</p>
<p>Given the constraints of the freeway network in inner Portland, building this new bridge at the scale proposed would simply move the problem downstream.  Doesn&#8217;t seem like a smart use of billions of dollars, does it?</p>
<p>The CRC would seem to be an ideal application for congestion pricing.  This would encourage travelers in Vancouver destined for downtown Portland to use a high frequency MAX connection, particularly during peak periods where the tolls would be most expensive.  Tolls would help cover a portion of the capital cost.  Drivers who now make short, discretionary auto trips across the bridge (thereby, clogging the highway for longer haul travelers and freight traffic) would experience a strong price signal to adjust their trip making patterns. If the price were set to continually manage demand on the bridge at all hours, the resulting bridge could likely be reduced significantly in scope, thereby saving taxpayer dollars, and of course time not stuck in congestion.  And still, commuters could opt to drive and pay the toll at any time or take the attractive MAX option into downtown Portland for jobs and entertainment, which supports the investments that the Portland region has been making for several decades.</p>
<p>Is there any indication that a congestion pricing strategy might be considered, perhaps in tandem with the 205 bridge, especially given Portland&#8217;s long term sustainability goals and the USDOT/EPA/HUD emphasis on livability?  A challenging, multi-modal, bi-state issue such as this is exactly why we desperately need a visionary new national transportation policy with that lays out a vision, with principles, goals, and metrics that would help ensure that smarter decisions are made on projects like the CRC.  Unfortunately, we are still waiting for that&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/02/23/controversial-portland-columbia-river-crossing-under-pressure-to-move-forward-despite-flaws/#comment-30270</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=5416#comment-30270</guid>
		<description>An analogy can be made with the Port mann Bridge being built between Surrey, BC and Coquitlam, BC on the Trans-Canada Highway outside of Vancouver, BC.  Much of the traffic  (40%) on the Port Mann Bridge is local traffic between Coquitlam and Surrey, but the freeway bridge is the only crossing in the area.  

The new Port Mann Bridge is currently being constructed and is divided into express and collector/distributor lanes.  It is a 10 lane crossing, with 6 lanes comprising through lanes (1 HOV and 2 express lanes each way) and 4 lanes comprising collector/distributor lanes.  The collector distributor lanes split &quot;outside&quot; (east and west) of the two interchanges that flank the bridge - so that the collector/distributor lanes will serve local traffic and act as an arterial road bridge while the express lanes serve the freeway and proceed without merging and dodging cased by the local interchanges.  
In essence it is two bridges in one structure. 
(That&#039;s easier than finding local funding for an arterial road bridge)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An analogy can be made with the Port mann Bridge being built between Surrey, BC and Coquitlam, BC on the Trans-Canada Highway outside of Vancouver, BC.  Much of the traffic  (40%) on the Port Mann Bridge is local traffic between Coquitlam and Surrey, but the freeway bridge is the only crossing in the area.  </p>
<p>The new Port Mann Bridge is currently being constructed and is divided into express and collector/distributor lanes.  It is a 10 lane crossing, with 6 lanes comprising through lanes (1 HOV and 2 express lanes each way) and 4 lanes comprising collector/distributor lanes.  The collector distributor lanes split &#8220;outside&#8221; (east and west) of the two interchanges that flank the bridge &#8211; so that the collector/distributor lanes will serve local traffic and act as an arterial road bridge while the express lanes serve the freeway and proceed without merging and dodging cased by the local interchanges.<br />
In essence it is two bridges in one structure.<br />
(That&#8217;s easier than finding local funding for an arterial road bridge)</p>
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