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	<title>Comments on: Illinois Moves Towards Rail Authority with Goal of Developing True High-Speed Service</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/21/illinois-moves-towards-rail-authority-with-goal-of-developing-true-high-speed-service/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/21/illinois-moves-towards-rail-authority-with-goal-of-developing-true-high-speed-service/</link>
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		<title>By: Adirondacker12800</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/21/illinois-moves-towards-rail-authority-with-goal-of-developing-true-high-speed-service/#comment-52518</link>
		<dc:creator>Adirondacker12800</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 00:57:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=6387#comment-52518</guid>
		<description>What you save on land costs will more than be made up by the extraordinarily expensive track maglevs need.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you save on land costs will more than be made up by the extraordinarily expensive track maglevs need.</p>
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		<title>By: Clarence</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/21/illinois-moves-towards-rail-authority-with-goal-of-developing-true-high-speed-service/#comment-52516</link>
		<dc:creator>Clarence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 00:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=6387#comment-52516</guid>
		<description>Illinois has the chance to determine the country&#039;s high speed rail service for the next 50+ years. The chance to build a system that will operate in deep snow.  A system that will operate free of railroad crossings. A system that will make the trip from Chicago to St Louis in less than two hours. Illinois has the chance to build an elevated Maglev Train System. 
Just follow Interstate 55 and cut a big chunk out of land cost. Following the interstate will also save on the cost of constructing service roads.  Once Missourians actually see the advantages of a Maglev system, they will waste no time in continuing the Maglev to Kansas City.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Illinois has the chance to determine the country&#8217;s high speed rail service for the next 50+ years. The chance to build a system that will operate in deep snow.  A system that will operate free of railroad crossings. A system that will make the trip from Chicago to St Louis in less than two hours. Illinois has the chance to build an elevated Maglev Train System.<br />
Just follow Interstate 55 and cut a big chunk out of land cost. Following the interstate will also save on the cost of constructing service roads.  Once Missourians actually see the advantages of a Maglev system, they will waste no time in continuing the Maglev to Kansas City.</p>
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		<title>By: OceanRailroader</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/21/illinois-moves-towards-rail-authority-with-goal-of-developing-true-high-speed-service/#comment-35741</link>
		<dc:creator>OceanRailroader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 23:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=6387#comment-35741</guid>
		<description>They could build the new high speed rail lines next to the existing fright lines most of the rail lines in that area are built like arrows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They could build the new high speed rail lines next to the existing fright lines most of the rail lines in that area are built like arrows.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/21/illinois-moves-towards-rail-authority-with-goal-of-developing-true-high-speed-service/#comment-35731</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 22:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=6387#comment-35731</guid>
		<description>The problem in Springfield is that there are two parallel lines, of which one only goes to the Champaign route, and the other only to the Bloomington route. You could hook up either line to the other, but only by taking a small amount of farmland further north. This isn&#039;t a bad thing. Downstate Illinois is not Darien, where property values are so high eminent domain costs encroach on tunnel costs. It&#039;s a middle of nowhere farmland where the cost of carving your own ROW is smaller than a measurement error.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem in Springfield is that there are two parallel lines, of which one only goes to the Champaign route, and the other only to the Bloomington route. You could hook up either line to the other, but only by taking a small amount of farmland further north. This isn&#8217;t a bad thing. Downstate Illinois is not Darien, where property values are so high eminent domain costs encroach on tunnel costs. It&#8217;s a middle of nowhere farmland where the cost of carving your own ROW is smaller than a measurement error.</p>
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		<title>By: Adirondacker12800</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/21/illinois-moves-towards-rail-authority-with-goal-of-developing-true-high-speed-service/#comment-35717</link>
		<dc:creator>Adirondacker12800</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 21:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=6387#comment-35717</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;The problem is, big chunks of the line are owned by UP.&lt;/em&gt;

UP plays nicer in Illinois. I suspect it&#039;s because Illinois doesn&#039;t have Prop 13 and when UP asserts that it&#039;s ROW is so very very valuable the tax assessor starts asking uncomfortable questions and giving uncomfortable answers. If they sell half their ROW, does that mean their tax liability is halved? 

There will be property takes for the grade separations. There&#039;s a grade crossing every mile or so, it is crossing the Northwest Territories grid after all, if someone doesn&#039;t want highway grade separations intruding into his or her farmland they can just close the grade crossing.... and they can drive to the next crossing a mile or two away to get across the tracks. That&#039;s going to be an incentive to not obstruct grade separations. 

The former IC lines heading south from Chicago are owned by Metra. Fully grade separated all the way into Millenium Station. Metra also owns the Rock Island line. The Heritage Corridor, if Wikipedia is to be believed, is owned by CN north of Joliet. 

http://fragis.frasafety.net/GISFRASafety/default.aspx

I may not be reading it correctly but it looks like BNSF is the railroad that goes to Union Station, UP goes to Ogilvie. Ogilvie isn&#039;t a good choice for service to points south of Chicago. 

&lt;em&gt;In areas where the legacy line doesn’t hook up to the Amtrak station &lt;/em&gt;

I suspect that all of the Amtrak stations, ones that have actual trains, not Thruway buses, are on railroad lines. If they select a line that doesn&#039;t have Amtrak service I suspect that the nearby Amtrak station will be moved to the higher speed line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>The problem is, big chunks of the line are owned by UP.</em></p>
<p>UP plays nicer in Illinois. I suspect it&#8217;s because Illinois doesn&#8217;t have Prop 13 and when UP asserts that it&#8217;s ROW is so very very valuable the tax assessor starts asking uncomfortable questions and giving uncomfortable answers. If they sell half their ROW, does that mean their tax liability is halved? </p>
<p>There will be property takes for the grade separations. There&#8217;s a grade crossing every mile or so, it is crossing the Northwest Territories grid after all, if someone doesn&#8217;t want highway grade separations intruding into his or her farmland they can just close the grade crossing&#8230;. and they can drive to the next crossing a mile or two away to get across the tracks. That&#8217;s going to be an incentive to not obstruct grade separations. </p>
<p>The former IC lines heading south from Chicago are owned by Metra. Fully grade separated all the way into Millenium Station. Metra also owns the Rock Island line. The Heritage Corridor, if Wikipedia is to be believed, is owned by CN north of Joliet. </p>
<p><a href="http://fragis.frasafety.net/GISFRASafety/default.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://fragis.frasafety.net/GISFRASafety/default.aspx</a></p>
<p>I may not be reading it correctly but it looks like BNSF is the railroad that goes to Union Station, UP goes to Ogilvie. Ogilvie isn&#8217;t a good choice for service to points south of Chicago. </p>
<p><em>In areas where the legacy line doesn’t hook up to the Amtrak station </em></p>
<p>I suspect that all of the Amtrak stations, ones that have actual trains, not Thruway buses, are on railroad lines. If they select a line that doesn&#8217;t have Amtrak service I suspect that the nearby Amtrak station will be moved to the higher speed line.</p>
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		<title>By: DBX</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/21/illinois-moves-towards-rail-authority-with-goal-of-developing-true-high-speed-service/#comment-35652</link>
		<dc:creator>DBX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 16:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=6387#comment-35652</guid>
		<description>Everyone here is arguing technical points, but I&#039;m going to throw in a political one.

$400 million of Illinois funds?  What Illinois funds?  Our $13 billion deficit?  The $700 million the state is in arrears to the universities alone?  The more than $5 billion backlog of unpaid state bills?  Or our $77 billion pension shortfall?

The fact is, while Illinois is increasingly amenable to the idea of rail, actually paying for it cannot be counted on in this current budget crisis.  There are serious questions as to whether the state can even meet the governor&#039;s highly road-skewed commitment to transportation bonding, as there isn&#039;t enough tax revenue coming in to back the bonds and the state House leadership continues with its fantasy of getting bipartisan support for a tax increase at a time that the Republicans have gone full-on teabag.  (Note that in Illinois, the sales tax increases and the creation of the income tax were all Republican decisions; at least in the last 50 years Democrats have never raised individual statewide taxes; and they&#039;re exceedingly reluctant to do it without Republican votes).

Additionally, there hasn&#039;t been any overall move in state transportation spending away from roads.  The new bonding package, Illinois Jobs Now! has, if anything, a slightly smaller percentage share for rail/bus/transit than the last one a decade ago.  The bonding package, a $31 billion, five-year plan of capital improvements for roads, rail, transit, schools, airports, economic development, community development, environmental reclamation and so on, is the first capital bill we&#039;ve had in Illinois since George Ryan&#039;s Illinois FIRST scheme from 1999-2004.  (Blagojevich refused to agree to any major capital spending, in the pursuit of his no-new-taxes pledge.)  We have $14.3 billion on roads; only $7 billion for all other transportation including transit, HSR, airports, CREATE, Amtrak and studies into car-sharing.  So the important takeaway from this for HSR is that there is basically nil chance within the next five years of expanding that $400 million number even if by some miracle we&#039;re able to balance the overall state budget.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone here is arguing technical points, but I&#8217;m going to throw in a political one.</p>
<p>$400 million of Illinois funds?  What Illinois funds?  Our $13 billion deficit?  The $700 million the state is in arrears to the universities alone?  The more than $5 billion backlog of unpaid state bills?  Or our $77 billion pension shortfall?</p>
<p>The fact is, while Illinois is increasingly amenable to the idea of rail, actually paying for it cannot be counted on in this current budget crisis.  There are serious questions as to whether the state can even meet the governor&#8217;s highly road-skewed commitment to transportation bonding, as there isn&#8217;t enough tax revenue coming in to back the bonds and the state House leadership continues with its fantasy of getting bipartisan support for a tax increase at a time that the Republicans have gone full-on teabag.  (Note that in Illinois, the sales tax increases and the creation of the income tax were all Republican decisions; at least in the last 50 years Democrats have never raised individual statewide taxes; and they&#8217;re exceedingly reluctant to do it without Republican votes).</p>
<p>Additionally, there hasn&#8217;t been any overall move in state transportation spending away from roads.  The new bonding package, Illinois Jobs Now! has, if anything, a slightly smaller percentage share for rail/bus/transit than the last one a decade ago.  The bonding package, a $31 billion, five-year plan of capital improvements for roads, rail, transit, schools, airports, economic development, community development, environmental reclamation and so on, is the first capital bill we&#8217;ve had in Illinois since George Ryan&#8217;s Illinois FIRST scheme from 1999-2004.  (Blagojevich refused to agree to any major capital spending, in the pursuit of his no-new-taxes pledge.)  We have $14.3 billion on roads; only $7 billion for all other transportation including transit, HSR, airports, CREATE, Amtrak and studies into car-sharing.  So the important takeaway from this for HSR is that there is basically nil chance within the next five years of expanding that $400 million number even if by some miracle we&#8217;re able to balance the overall state budget.</p>
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		<title>By: DBX</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/21/illinois-moves-towards-rail-authority-with-goal-of-developing-true-high-speed-service/#comment-35647</link>
		<dc:creator>DBX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 16:03:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=6387#comment-35647</guid>
		<description>100 feet is typical for right of way width for a railroad.  So there&#039;s plenty of room in most of the mainline rights of way in Illinois to add extra tracks.  The only barriers are where rights of way have been narrowed in urban areas, such as Bloomington and Springfield.  In any case, it&#039;s not Downstate I&#039;m worried about.  It&#039;s Chicago.  There is one, and only one, good current rail access to downtown, and that&#039;s the former Illinois Central, which was done properly in the 1910s with considerable city and state funding.  It&#039;s six tracks wide well out into the suburbs, fully grade separated out all the way through the suburbs, and grossly underutilized and about to become even more so when CREATE and Grand Crossing are done.  Using that, of course, would imply an approach from Champaign rather than Bloomington.  

Any other route into Chicago is going to require massive new construction and land acquisition and cost eye-poppipng amounts of money.  The CNW/N or rather UP/N as it is now is fairly well grade separated but you&#039;d minimally need to restore the third track and there&#039;s no room for the four tracks you&#039;d need to completely separate local and express services; Amtrak&#039;s ambitions for dedicated passenger tracks as far as Porter, Indiana, at least have available right of way and are fairly easy to grade separate.  And the current routes to St. Louis and Milwaukee are littered with grade crossings, congested with other traffic, are insufficiently wide and would need to be completely done over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>100 feet is typical for right of way width for a railroad.  So there&#8217;s plenty of room in most of the mainline rights of way in Illinois to add extra tracks.  The only barriers are where rights of way have been narrowed in urban areas, such as Bloomington and Springfield.  In any case, it&#8217;s not Downstate I&#8217;m worried about.  It&#8217;s Chicago.  There is one, and only one, good current rail access to downtown, and that&#8217;s the former Illinois Central, which was done properly in the 1910s with considerable city and state funding.  It&#8217;s six tracks wide well out into the suburbs, fully grade separated out all the way through the suburbs, and grossly underutilized and about to become even more so when CREATE and Grand Crossing are done.  Using that, of course, would imply an approach from Champaign rather than Bloomington.  </p>
<p>Any other route into Chicago is going to require massive new construction and land acquisition and cost eye-poppipng amounts of money.  The CNW/N or rather UP/N as it is now is fairly well grade separated but you&#8217;d minimally need to restore the third track and there&#8217;s no room for the four tracks you&#8217;d need to completely separate local and express services; Amtrak&#8217;s ambitions for dedicated passenger tracks as far as Porter, Indiana, at least have available right of way and are fairly easy to grade separate.  And the current routes to St. Louis and Milwaukee are littered with grade crossings, congested with other traffic, are insufficiently wide and would need to be completely done over.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/21/illinois-moves-towards-rail-authority-with-goal-of-developing-true-high-speed-service/#comment-34991</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 02:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=6387#comment-34991</guid>
		<description>The problem is, big chunks of the line are owned by UP.

But even carving a new ROW is really cheap. In areas where the legacy line doesn&#039;t hook up to the Amtrak station or has curves, there&#039;s no reason to use it. This isn&#039;t the SF Peninsula or New Jersey we&#039;re talking about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is, big chunks of the line are owned by UP.</p>
<p>But even carving a new ROW is really cheap. In areas where the legacy line doesn&#8217;t hook up to the Amtrak station or has curves, there&#8217;s no reason to use it. This isn&#8217;t the SF Peninsula or New Jersey we&#8217;re talking about.</p>
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		<title>By: Adirondacker12800</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/21/illinois-moves-towards-rail-authority-with-goal-of-developing-true-high-speed-service/#comment-34981</link>
		<dc:creator>Adirondacker12800</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 02:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=6387#comment-34981</guid>
		<description>Most places the owner will be CSX or NS. The plans I&#039;ve seen have them running it along the existing railroad(s). You can&#039;t argue that the trains will slice up your acreage when it&#039;s been sliced up by a railroad for 5 generations. By the 1850s it was standard railroad practice to get a ROW at least 4 rods wide, 66 feet or 20 meters. Most places they went for 100 feet or more. They will have to negotiate with one owner, the freight railroad. 

Grade crossings are expensive to maintain. The railroad will jump at the chance to get rid of the grade crossings and upgrade their track to 90 mile an hour freight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most places the owner will be CSX or NS. The plans I&#8217;ve seen have them running it along the existing railroad(s). You can&#8217;t argue that the trains will slice up your acreage when it&#8217;s been sliced up by a railroad for 5 generations. By the 1850s it was standard railroad practice to get a ROW at least 4 rods wide, 66 feet or 20 meters. Most places they went for 100 feet or more. They will have to negotiate with one owner, the freight railroad. </p>
<p>Grade crossings are expensive to maintain. The railroad will jump at the chance to get rid of the grade crossings and upgrade their track to 90 mile an hour freight.</p>
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		<title>By: OceanRailroader</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/21/illinois-moves-towards-rail-authority-with-goal-of-developing-true-high-speed-service/#comment-34954</link>
		<dc:creator>OceanRailroader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 23:30:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=6387#comment-34954</guid>
		<description>They could run the high speed rail line along Interstate 39.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They could run the high speed rail line along Interstate 39.</p>
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