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	<title>Comments on: Amtrak Planning Major Push to Operate True High-Speed Lines</title>
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	<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/23/amtrak-planning-major-push-to-operate-true-high-speed-lines/</link>
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		<title>By: FG</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/23/amtrak-planning-major-push-to-operate-true-high-speed-lines/#comment-180347</link>
		<dc:creator>FG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2011 17:56:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=6408#comment-180347</guid>
		<description>I wonder how they&#039;d do it in Stockholm, since there is already dense development around most stations and there is no expansion planned. I&#039;m wondering how they would make that work in dense areas which aren&#039;t expanding their networks or have anti-growth/low-zoning in place (I&#039;m thinking LIRR where many LI towns try to keep density low), would they even enter those markets?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder how they&#8217;d do it in Stockholm, since there is already dense development around most stations and there is no expansion planned. I&#8217;m wondering how they would make that work in dense areas which aren&#8217;t expanding their networks or have anti-growth/low-zoning in place (I&#8217;m thinking LIRR where many LI towns try to keep density low), would they even enter those markets?</p>
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		<title>By: John W</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/23/amtrak-planning-major-push-to-operate-true-high-speed-lines/#comment-179711</link>
		<dc:creator>John W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Apr 2011 10:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=6408#comment-179711</guid>
		<description>The MTR won&#039;t ever be using this business model in London. They won a 7-year franchise (as part of a partnership) &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Overground#Operator&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;to operate the London Overground&lt;/a&gt;, which, while part of the national rail network, is controlled by Transport for London, and in many ways bears more similarity to the Underground than to commuter rail. Its function is primarily as an orbital line, and frequencies are pretty constant throughout the day. Its operations comprise only a fraction of the rail services in London. 

I&#039;d imagine the MTR&#039;s operates on similar contracts in the other cities you mentioned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The MTR won&#8217;t ever be using this business model in London. They won a 7-year franchise (as part of a partnership) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Overground#Operator" rel="nofollow">to operate the London Overground</a>, which, while part of the national rail network, is controlled by Transport for London, and in many ways bears more similarity to the Underground than to commuter rail. Its function is primarily as an orbital line, and frequencies are pretty constant throughout the day. Its operations comprise only a fraction of the rail services in London. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d imagine the MTR&#8217;s operates on similar contracts in the other cities you mentioned.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Patoski</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/23/amtrak-planning-major-push-to-operate-true-high-speed-lines/#comment-179677</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Patoski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Apr 2011 17:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=6408#comment-179677</guid>
		<description>the story implies that no funds from the private sector can be raised to pay for capital costs.. but this is not true. To see how private sector funds are being used successfully to fund transit expansion and operations TODAY look at the MTR Corp, Ltd “Rail plus Property” business model being used in a common sense symbiotic manner where the profits from real estate development at, over and intergraded with transit stations generates income that not only is now paying for the expansion of the rail system in the Hong Kong region but is being used to lower fares. Also, as a publically traded stock company, it used the proceeds from a IPO (not funds from the public sector) to start the real estate development portion of its business plan ( it’s now involved in 18.3 mil sq ft of retail space and 75,000 residential units)and pays dividends to it stockholders, the largest of which is the government of Hong Kong rather than the government paying for rail expansion and operating subsidies. It also is now operating the commuter rail system in London, Melbourne, and Stockholm and I am guessing it will soon start applying their “Rail Plus Property” business model in these cities as well. 
•	
The big problem in the US that prevents local rail operators from replicating this business model is that I do not know of any local or regional transit authorities that are permitted to acquire any real estate that is not for transit purposes and therefore cannot fully recapture the income benefits to other properties from their transit improvement and service. But I do not know of why the MTR corporation cannot enter into a contract to operate a major commuter rail system (i.e. like Metro North, LIRR, MBTA, SEPTA etc..and follow their rail plus property business model. MTR is very good at what it does with 93% on time performance for its trains and the first to offer 3G wi-fi on all railway premises. One can only hope that they get involved in the US soon because neither the federal and local governments nor the private sector in the US seem to get it.. even when the model for generating and using private sector funds to fund rail transit expansions and operations is out there for all to see !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the story implies that no funds from the private sector can be raised to pay for capital costs.. but this is not true. To see how private sector funds are being used successfully to fund transit expansion and operations TODAY look at the MTR Corp, Ltd “Rail plus Property” business model being used in a common sense symbiotic manner where the profits from real estate development at, over and intergraded with transit stations generates income that not only is now paying for the expansion of the rail system in the Hong Kong region but is being used to lower fares. Also, as a publically traded stock company, it used the proceeds from a IPO (not funds from the public sector) to start the real estate development portion of its business plan ( it’s now involved in 18.3 mil sq ft of retail space and 75,000 residential units)and pays dividends to it stockholders, the largest of which is the government of Hong Kong rather than the government paying for rail expansion and operating subsidies. It also is now operating the commuter rail system in London, Melbourne, and Stockholm and I am guessing it will soon start applying their “Rail Plus Property” business model in these cities as well.<br />
•<br />
The big problem in the US that prevents local rail operators from replicating this business model is that I do not know of any local or regional transit authorities that are permitted to acquire any real estate that is not for transit purposes and therefore cannot fully recapture the income benefits to other properties from their transit improvement and service. But I do not know of why the MTR corporation cannot enter into a contract to operate a major commuter rail system (i.e. like Metro North, LIRR, MBTA, SEPTA etc..and follow their rail plus property business model. MTR is very good at what it does with 93% on time performance for its trains and the first to offer 3G wi-fi on all railway premises. One can only hope that they get involved in the US soon because neither the federal and local governments nor the private sector in the US seem to get it.. even when the model for generating and using private sector funds to fund rail transit expansions and operations is out there for all to see !</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/23/amtrak-planning-major-push-to-operate-true-high-speed-lines/#comment-36513</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:19:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=6408#comment-36513</guid>
		<description>Oh, the plan is still around. It was just the first thing to be cut when the budget projections turned sour. If I&#039;m not mistaken they postponed it as early as 2008.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, the plan is still around. It was just the first thing to be cut when the budget projections turned sour. If I&#8217;m not mistaken they postponed it as early as 2008.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/23/amtrak-planning-major-push-to-operate-true-high-speed-lines/#comment-36510</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=6408#comment-36510</guid>
		<description>Please cite to the MTA&#039;s &quot;pulling the plug&quot; on the Main Line triple tracking.  As far as I can tell that plan is still fully in place, and they just moved the funds for it to something else due to the budget crunch.

But they&#039;re still triple-tracking every time they rebuild a station, overpass, undergrade bridge, et cetera.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please cite to the MTA&#8217;s &#8220;pulling the plug&#8221; on the Main Line triple tracking.  As far as I can tell that plan is still fully in place, and they just moved the funds for it to something else due to the budget crunch.</p>
<p>But they&#8217;re still triple-tracking every time they rebuild a station, overpass, undergrade bridge, et cetera.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/23/amtrak-planning-major-push-to-operate-true-high-speed-lines/#comment-36480</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2010 03:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=6408#comment-36480</guid>
		<description>The way you describe HSR is exactly the opposite of how HSR works in most countries. Japan and France are not in any hurry to build 300 km/h lines to every hamlet; they&#039;re building high-speed rail on the main lines, and connecting smaller metro areas by low-speed rail.

The heavy commuter traffic is mostly a red herring. New Jersey is full of six-track sections, and Connecticut needs enough bypasses that it would take flagrant schedule abuse to cause bottlenecks. Everywhere else on the NEC, commuter traffic is negligible, and long-distance commute traffic would shift to a faster Acela anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way you describe HSR is exactly the opposite of how HSR works in most countries. Japan and France are not in any hurry to build 300 km/h lines to every hamlet; they&#8217;re building high-speed rail on the main lines, and connecting smaller metro areas by low-speed rail.</p>
<p>The heavy commuter traffic is mostly a red herring. New Jersey is full of six-track sections, and Connecticut needs enough bypasses that it would take flagrant schedule abuse to cause bottlenecks. Everywhere else on the NEC, commuter traffic is negligible, and long-distance commute traffic would shift to a faster Acela anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Brassard</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/23/amtrak-planning-major-push-to-operate-true-high-speed-lines/#comment-36381</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Brassard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Mar 2010 16:08:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=6408#comment-36381</guid>
		<description>An entire system wouldn’t have to be elevated, though if you want 130-220 mph service in many places, especially urban areas, elevating tracks would be the only way to achieve those kinds of speeds. As for the Northeast Corridor most of it would likely need to be elevated. 

In Connecticut west of New Haven due to track curves and extreme congestion with commuter and regional trains the Acela never approaches its top speed range. In Massachusetts the commonwealth owns the Northeast Corridor tracks and restricts the total number of trains that Amtrak can operate through the state as to not conflict with MBTA commuter service. Rhode Island is re-introducing commuter rail service. The Rhode Island corridor previously had the ability to accommodate four tracks, now only a maximum of three tracks is possible, since Amtrak shifted new tracks off-center when they electrified the stretch east of New Haven roughly a decade ago. The New Jersey corridor is similar to Connecticut with heavy commuter rail, regional, and freight traffic. Freight trains would have to be forbidden on any high-speed corridor to prevent track deterioration. I’ve yet to see a 20-lane Interstate highway, unless Los Angeles or New Jersey has one that I’m not aware of. To avoid the freight train problem, four tracks would be required as a minimum everywhere for a high-speed rail system. As for proposing bi-passes, acquiring land in any built up area would cost as much an elevating tracks. Not to mention the enormous opposition that would build up by property owners with any proposal to take land.

It might not be necessary for every high-speed rail line to reach every village or hamlet, but any metropolitan area above 200,000 people should be included as stops in any high-speed system. The Interstate Highway System though it doesn’t go everywhere is ubiquitous within the American landscape. It is interconnected and reaches large and small populations alike. If a high-speed rail system is not fully integrated and connected to all regions, it won’t work as well and rail service would continue to have difficulty competing with the airlines. The current federal proposal for high-speed rail would only provide a fraction in comparison to the size and complexity of the Interstate Highway System. The plan lacks a coherent big picture vision, one of the purposes of this website to raise these issues and hopefully bring them to the attention of policy and decision makers so that they might be informed when they act.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An entire system wouldn’t have to be elevated, though if you want 130-220 mph service in many places, especially urban areas, elevating tracks would be the only way to achieve those kinds of speeds. As for the Northeast Corridor most of it would likely need to be elevated. </p>
<p>In Connecticut west of New Haven due to track curves and extreme congestion with commuter and regional trains the Acela never approaches its top speed range. In Massachusetts the commonwealth owns the Northeast Corridor tracks and restricts the total number of trains that Amtrak can operate through the state as to not conflict with MBTA commuter service. Rhode Island is re-introducing commuter rail service. The Rhode Island corridor previously had the ability to accommodate four tracks, now only a maximum of three tracks is possible, since Amtrak shifted new tracks off-center when they electrified the stretch east of New Haven roughly a decade ago. The New Jersey corridor is similar to Connecticut with heavy commuter rail, regional, and freight traffic. Freight trains would have to be forbidden on any high-speed corridor to prevent track deterioration. I’ve yet to see a 20-lane Interstate highway, unless Los Angeles or New Jersey has one that I’m not aware of. To avoid the freight train problem, four tracks would be required as a minimum everywhere for a high-speed rail system. As for proposing bi-passes, acquiring land in any built up area would cost as much an elevating tracks. Not to mention the enormous opposition that would build up by property owners with any proposal to take land.</p>
<p>It might not be necessary for every high-speed rail line to reach every village or hamlet, but any metropolitan area above 200,000 people should be included as stops in any high-speed system. The Interstate Highway System though it doesn’t go everywhere is ubiquitous within the American landscape. It is interconnected and reaches large and small populations alike. If a high-speed rail system is not fully integrated and connected to all regions, it won’t work as well and rail service would continue to have difficulty competing with the airlines. The current federal proposal for high-speed rail would only provide a fraction in comparison to the size and complexity of the Interstate Highway System. The plan lacks a coherent big picture vision, one of the purposes of this website to raise these issues and hopefully bring them to the attention of policy and decision makers so that they might be informed when they act.</p>
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		<title>By: OceanRailroader</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/23/amtrak-planning-major-push-to-operate-true-high-speed-lines/#comment-36255</link>
		<dc:creator>OceanRailroader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Mar 2010 00:27:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=6408#comment-36255</guid>
		<description>The Pennsyvinia Railroad used to have a four track main line from Phili to Pittsburg but that was cut down to two tracks wide in the 1960&#039;s. If they want to add high speed rail to Pittsburg they could restore two of the abaondoned railroad tracks and have the passanger trains work in their own set of tracks with out having to build new ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Pennsyvinia Railroad used to have a four track main line from Phili to Pittsburg but that was cut down to two tracks wide in the 1960&#8242;s. If they want to add high speed rail to Pittsburg they could restore two of the abaondoned railroad tracks and have the passanger trains work in their own set of tracks with out having to build new ones.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/23/amtrak-planning-major-push-to-operate-true-high-speed-lines/#comment-36236</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 21:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=6408#comment-36236</guid>
		<description>First, why would an interstate railroad system have to be elevated? At-grade construction is several times cheaper, and is sufficient everywhere except in a few urban sections. Even on the Northeast Corridor, few sections outside the various I-95/US 1 bypasses in Fairfield County need to be elevated.

Second, the various proposals do have a nationwide network. Sometimes they&#039;re even overzealous in proposing HSR on corridors where the only service that&#039;s cost effective is modern diesel or electric service, running lightweight tilting trains on existing track topping at 130-180 km/h. People in Tuscaloosa would be perfectly capable of riding a regional train to Atlanta and then connecting to New York or Chicago. Connected networks don&#039;t have to give every node the highest class of service. Even Interstate planners recognize that, which is why remote rural areas get 4-lane roads and urban areas get 20-lane roads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, why would an interstate railroad system have to be elevated? At-grade construction is several times cheaper, and is sufficient everywhere except in a few urban sections. Even on the Northeast Corridor, few sections outside the various I-95/US 1 bypasses in Fairfield County need to be elevated.</p>
<p>Second, the various proposals do have a nationwide network. Sometimes they&#8217;re even overzealous in proposing HSR on corridors where the only service that&#8217;s cost effective is modern diesel or electric service, running lightweight tilting trains on existing track topping at 130-180 km/h. People in Tuscaloosa would be perfectly capable of riding a regional train to Atlanta and then connecting to New York or Chicago. Connected networks don&#8217;t have to give every node the highest class of service. Even Interstate planners recognize that, which is why remote rural areas get 4-lane roads and urban areas get 20-lane roads.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Brassard</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/03/23/amtrak-planning-major-push-to-operate-true-high-speed-lines/#comment-36207</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Brassard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 17:54:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=6408#comment-36207</guid>
		<description>Robert Moses proposed extending a highway from Long Island to Rhode Island in the 1950s by leapfrogging the small islands that separate Long Island and Block Island Sounds with bridges. The money couldn’t be found then and it would be less likely to find funding for a rail tunnel to New London today. That kind of heroic infrastructure gesture might work in Europe or Japan, but it won’t work here. Americans are more comfortable supporting infrastructure, like highway or railroads, when projects are perceived to be more egalitarian or democratic. Other regions would feel ignored and marginalized by such an expensive single project for the northeast. 

The government&#039;s current policy of establishing high-speed rail corridors is too timid and fragmented to capture the imagination of the entire country. The big idea is absent. Why would the roughly 1/3 of the states support a system that wouldn’t serve them or if it did it wouldn’t be for 20 to 30 years? How would cities in one high-speed rail region be connected to a neighboring city in another region?  In the current plan the only integrated regions are the Northeast, Southeast, and a portion of the Gulf area. The other five proposed regions would be disconnected islands. The proposal is not a system, but a patchwork.

Tom Beebe’s notion of an “Interstate Railroad System” could capture Americans imagination. An elevated high-speed rail network that could link all cities and most states would be an idea the country could rally behind. The idea of a publicly owned infrastructure managed by government, but used by competing private rail networks would be a similar the Interstate Highway System or airport system. Allowing for competing rail services by private companies could bridge the traditional divide between conservative and liberal interests.  Beebe made good points suggesting the implementation of user fees to pay down bonds and tax-exemptions to support service providers towards equipment purchases. A private-public rail partnership might be the best way to successfully construct an American high-speed rail system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert Moses proposed extending a highway from Long Island to Rhode Island in the 1950s by leapfrogging the small islands that separate Long Island and Block Island Sounds with bridges. The money couldn’t be found then and it would be less likely to find funding for a rail tunnel to New London today. That kind of heroic infrastructure gesture might work in Europe or Japan, but it won’t work here. Americans are more comfortable supporting infrastructure, like highway or railroads, when projects are perceived to be more egalitarian or democratic. Other regions would feel ignored and marginalized by such an expensive single project for the northeast. </p>
<p>The government&#8217;s current policy of establishing high-speed rail corridors is too timid and fragmented to capture the imagination of the entire country. The big idea is absent. Why would the roughly 1/3 of the states support a system that wouldn’t serve them or if it did it wouldn’t be for 20 to 30 years? How would cities in one high-speed rail region be connected to a neighboring city in another region?  In the current plan the only integrated regions are the Northeast, Southeast, and a portion of the Gulf area. The other five proposed regions would be disconnected islands. The proposal is not a system, but a patchwork.</p>
<p>Tom Beebe’s notion of an “Interstate Railroad System” could capture Americans imagination. An elevated high-speed rail network that could link all cities and most states would be an idea the country could rally behind. The idea of a publicly owned infrastructure managed by government, but used by competing private rail networks would be a similar the Interstate Highway System or airport system. Allowing for competing rail services by private companies could bridge the traditional divide between conservative and liberal interests.  Beebe made good points suggesting the implementation of user fees to pay down bonds and tax-exemptions to support service providers towards equipment purchases. A private-public rail partnership might be the best way to successfully construct an American high-speed rail system.</p>
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