Comments on: Oklahoma City Readies Modern Streetcar as Centerpiece of Major Redevelopment Plan

By: Robert Mann

Robert Mann — Sun, 19 Sep 2010 03:31:28 +0000

As a slightly displaced Oklahoma resident and one time transportation planner and politician I spent several hours talking to various officials in the State Capitol. In the 1990′s I tried to get attention focused on Union Station and the state passenger rail network or rather the lack thereof.

Restored Amtrak service between KC-Newton-OKC-Dallas etc and or OKC-Tulsa-KC/STL could be greatly enhanced by a state network taking full advantage of the ownership of a massive amount of trackage.

The humble RDC (Rail Diesel Car) a self propelled coach which can be rebuilt with a small snack-lounge section could easily make Oklahoma the envy of the nation. With a hub out of Union Station in OKC there are the following lines:
OKC-Chickasha-Lawton-Altus
OKC-El Reno-Weatherford-Clinton-Elk City
OKC-Guthrie-Crescent-Enid
OKC-Shawnee-McAlester-poteau-Ft.Smith

As well as lines:
Bartlesville-Tulsa-Muskogee-Ft. Smith
Enid-Clinton-Altus

Even with a single car train each way daily, this would be the most comprehensive network in America and much of it on State owned track. As to private operators why not a tax-train system, whereby the railroad would get a “magic number” as a direct tax credit. A credit of say 105% of the total chargeable costs of running the RDC service. The state could take care of promotion, advertising and such through it’s tourism division. Not only would such a network provide a local choice service it would appeal to thousands of railroad tourists around the globe. Early morning and evenings the RDC cars could take care of rush hour commutes in OKC and TULSA as a bonus.

The railroad passenger opportunity would require track repair on the branchlines, but there is no need for high speed in such a local service. The whole plan would require the Union Stations in OKC and TULA to become functional again, but then rail encourages development. $2 billion in Memphis, $3 billion in Tampa and Portland, and countless billions all along the California network makes one dream of what an economic rocket Oklahoma could become.

BOB
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/
http://jacksonvilletransit.blogspot.com/
http://www.freewebs.com/lightrailjacksonville/

By: Darla Reynolds-Sparks

Darla Reynolds-Sparks — Fri, 16 Jul 2010 22:05:33 +0000

It is a pleasure to read the sane and indepth views of Mr. Elmore and others who obviously are not shilling for the robber barons and frauds who perpetrate Oklahoma’s crimes against it’s citizens.

By: Tom Elmore

Tom Elmore — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:29:40 +0000

It may be of interest to some to know that the federal District Court of Appeals in DC has now called for oral arguments in the matter of the appeal of the STB’s decision that cleared the way for ODOT’s destruction of OKC Union Station rail yard.

By: Bob D. Rounsavell

Bob D. Rounsavell — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:18:02 +0000

Local passenger rail service potential still needs to be developed regardless of whatever else may be in the planning stage. Oklahoma owns lots of rail right-of-way that can be developed at a reasonable price.
According to ODOT data the old Frisco rail line between OKC and Tulsa can be upgraded for around $110-115 bringing passenger rail to both OKC and Tulsa in a relatively short period of time. About six million dollars would upgrade the track north from OKC to the Kansas line with eventual service extending to Wichita and Kansas City.
Perhaps that is too reasonable for the powers that be in Oklahoma to comprehend. The key to this is that for a small amount of hard-to-come-by dollars, we could develop local passenger rail service to much of the state regardless of what happens with high-speed rail. This is service that could be made available in a very short period of time.
I suggest readers of this give special attention to the comments provided by Tom Elmore and Evan Stair. These two gentlemen have given countless hours of their time trying to get officials to adopt a sensible local serving system of passenger rail for years now. It’s about time people started listening to them. This is quite doable for a few dollars in a short amount of time. Why don’t we just do it?

By: Alon Levy

Alon Levy — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 01:27:08 +0000

Actually, modernized intercity passenger rail lines rarely include freight components, especially niche-market freight. The mixed traffic projects in recent years, for example the Swiss base tunnels, are based on the opposite concept: they allow heavier freight trains, by cutting off steep grades and detours.

Express mail service is something else – it’s light enough that trains can be built to the same specs as passenger rail, for example TGV La Poste. But the mail sorting facilities are not put in downtown regions, but further out, where there’s less traffic and lower real estate cost. And regardless, TGV La Poste is a tiny niche and Class I freight would not change its business model to accommodate it. The future of US rail freight is not in HSR derivatives, but in better multimodal transportation.

Adirondacker is right. 2010 isn’t 1888. What worked then may well be daft today.

By: Tom Elmore

Tom Elmore — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 01:04:53 +0000

The first railway depot including mail and express facility was put out here on this particular part of the then largely empty prairie in 1888, a water stop on the AT&SF near the North Canadian River. It was known simply as “Oklahoma Station.” There was no “downtown,” “uptown,” or “town,” period. That grew up around the depot/mail and express facility, very much the same way business, housing and other development/redevelopment will inevitably center around lines of efficient transport in the future.

Meanwhile, intercity passenger trains will always require sustaining revenue. No industry ever did a better job of reliably and economically moving mail and express freight than the passenger component of the nation’s commercial railroads. If intercity passenger trains have a future at all in the USA, so will daily, scheduled, rail-borne movement of these specialized, niche-market cargoes. If the US Postal Service has a future, it’s either going to have to successfully argue for significant perpetual subsidy — or change its business model.

The taxpayers can insist on intelligent reuse of existing assets to lower the costs and other near-term negative effects of redeveloping rail passenger services — or we can allow the highway lobby and its army of co-dependent enablers to continue to do what they have done here in Oklahoma City. If they can’t keep rail development away altogether, their contractor pals will be just as happy forcing us to pay for it twice.

By: Adirondacker12800

Adirondacker12800 — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 00:29:28 +0000

You’re the one with the freight fantasies. Putting an express office and the freight house in the middle of downtown made sense in 1890. Why would there need to be significant freight handling in the middle of a 21st Century North American city?

By: Tom Elmore

Tom Elmore — Wed, 07 Jul 2010 21:31:06 +0000

Guessing I haven’t had the great fortune to trip over you or your pal hereabouts over the last 20 years as we’ve worked to preserve our railway assets, I’ll just relax and let you tell ME “where the Harvey House is.” It’s always a great pleasure to run into such experts.

By: Adirondacker12800

Adirondacker12800 — Mon, 05 Jul 2010 03:07:06 +0000

Isn’t the REA office right next to the Harvey House Restaurant. . .

By: Alon Levy

Alon Levy — Mon, 05 Jul 2010 00:02:40 +0000

Um, no. Two tracks for light rail may or may not be part of the mainline station; it depends on how the system sorts itself out whether LRT should run into the station area or not. A city the size of OKC doesn’t even need light rail – it needs good regional rail. This leaves commuter and intercity rail, which can share four tracks.

Freight doesn’t need to be at the same station as passengers, and in fact shouldn’t. You don’t want people to breathe diesel fumes from idling freight trains. Regional passenger rail can be electrified, in which case the ideal station design would look completely different; freight can, too, but it’s much harder. And if you really think mail sorting and express freight need their own dedicated tracks, right next to passenger space, you need to find your lost time machine and go back to when you came from, in the steam era.