If commentators are getting that major detail wrong, what else are the birds eye prognostications getting wrong?

Is anybody commenting actually ON the streets of Detroit understanding it’s needs? Or simply comparing everything to other cities and what they already know?

Then there is this comment: “combine existing rail to New Center then run it underground to downtown”. Hello, we already have an “underground subway” called the Dequindre Cut (or Orleans Trench by some). It’s now a bike path, but that can be turned back into a proper non-stop railroad at any time.

Some commentators have gotten it right – the cultural issue is bigger than the infrastructure issue but that is also changing. And culture notwithstanding, weather and lack of feeder buses (and density) also make BRT in many places north of certain points a dumb investment.

Pontiac to downtown Detroit is another story, BRT could functionally work as good as LRT, but one is sexier and has lower operating costs than the other and will more likely be used than the other.

There is no silver bullet. (“There is no sanctuary”) But there is silver buckshot. It is silly to scrap commuter rail for LRT or vice versa. Metro Detroit needs it all, needs it now, needed it yesterday.

The BRT triangle probably started not as a triangle, but as a V. One down Woodward, the other down Gratiot. Which make some sense. And once you’ve gotten that much done, it’s “logical” to say “why not connect the top of the V?” and make it a “saleable” or “gimmicky” package that doesn’t work better, but *looks* better, unified, complete, etc., to the average clueless voter.

So let’s think about the Woodward Corridor from downtown up to about Royal Oak or Birmingham as a “mentality area”, unbroken by city lines. It is populated by people who are not running *away* from urban-ness, or resentfully living in it, but running *toward* it. Let’s build a system for them – because they are the only ones who will use it – for now. For them, something up the spine of Woodward makes sense.

But really, a “cultural connector” streetcar loop should be considered equally important to other projects. Not in the center of Woodward, no further north than New Center, but one that rings through the east and west sides of Woodward, going through Woodbridge, Wayne State, New Center, Museum row, Eastern Market and downtown. The locals will actually use it to get to the places in that loop they already frequent. And it’s good for tourism (yes, there IS tourism). Like the Portland Streetcar or San Francisco F line, it’s ridership will exceed the numbers people thought an “ornamental” or “neighborhood” line could have, because it’s practical.

It doesn’t pretend to be for commuters, it doesn’t pretend to be a visible lightening rod up and down the middle of Woodward. But it makes much more sense than the People Mover. It doesn’t need the expensive stations or cost as much to operate as LRT, is simpler to set up and will remain an important, well used fixture, in all weather conditions, even in a rebounding future of Proper Light Rail.

But commuter rail must be first, not instead-of. It’s so close, so within reach, so planned. It should not be allowed to back burner in people’s minds or in light of the distraction of HSR or light rail. Silver buckshot.

The argument of above vs below ground should not ignore the fact that sometimes, seeing the line actually makes more people ride it rather than hiding it amongst people you “assume” know it’s underground. This is true with the Los Angeles “subway” that many locals don’t know exists, and is even true with BART to SFO amongst that section’s locals.

And farming downtown is not “defeatist no-growth” so it shouldn’t be so scary. It takes land off the market (which makes the rest more valuable) and out of the red and uses it until there is demand for it – like the Dequindre Cut bike path.

http://rustwire.com/2011/03/14/the-woodward-project-a-new-model-for-detroit/

http://www.detroitriverfront.org/dequindre/

If the Metro Detroit area is going to make any progress with a regional transit system, they might as well do it right and go with the LRT. It will take a little longer to implement a system on the this same scale as this “Golden Triangle” but it will be more effective at serving the right kind of communities and the right kind of transit oriented people.

Additionally, I would like to add that the suburbs aren’t really built to support transit. M-59 is kind of a meaningless route to propose regardless of the how many people live along that corridor. This area contains nothing but big box stores with vast parking lots that people aren’t going to ride a bus to visit. I’ll pose this question and please think about it for a second.

Would you ride a bus in the suburbs to visit a Lowe’s store and then in order to shop at another big box store (for instance Target) cart your purchases from Lowe’s across 3 gigantic parking lots and across one major intersection? Don’t forget you have to walk back too.

My point is that this BRT would be a boon and another failure for this region for three reasons:

1.) we wouldn’t be placing routes in the proper communities.
2.) we wouldn’t be utilizing the proper transit resources like LRT (Faster and more conducive to transit oriented developments).
3.) we wouldn’t be servicing the right transit oriented people.

The First Hill Streetcar should be much more of a success right out of the gate. It goes through a couple of fairly dense neighborhoods with an active retail strips, there is a university, a community college, two hospitals, and a major redevelopment area along the line. As part of the streetcar construction there will be major improvements to the streetscape. Hopefully the experience with this line will be closer to what has happened in Portland.

I am suggesting that this right of way should be wide enough in the metro area to allow commuter trains to use some of the same stations and platforms, etc. So any upgrades for Amtrak should be planned to accommodate commuter rail as well.

In fact, train service Detroit-Toledo-Cleveland-points east could start in the same timeframe. In that case, commuter rail could be local trains feeding the other line, e.g. Ypsilanti-Dearborn-change for Toledo-Cleveland, or Ypsilanti-Ann Arbor-change to 110 mph-Kalamazoo-Chicago.

I understand that commuter rail can’t be five trains a day. That leads to disappointments like Nashville’s line or Austin fiasco. Build a robust system, like New Mexico’s Rail Runner, or fugetaboutit.

However I don’t think its as bad as Dan made it seem. For the first time ever, the City Manager and Mayor of Rochester both collectively agree that connecting themselves with Detroit would be a good thing. Many of the cultural boundaries in Detroit are starting to disappear too; most people wouldn’t know this unless you lived there but a few decades ago a wall was built along 8 Mile to keep the city of Detroit out of the affluent neighborhoods beyond that point. this wall is finally coming down, and with it a lot of the fear/anger residents had for the other side of the wall.

I believe that the city is right to focus on its downtown which has seen recent improvement. Detroit is facing a major issue with how to shrink its city, right now entire neighborhoods are abandoned except for a few houses which requires the city to still provide, fire and police protection, as well as utilities. creating an extensive bus system in the city and out would never find enough riders to support it.

Now, if Michigan had its mind set on using the Amtrak lines to provide half-hourly regional service between Ann Arbor, Detroit, and Pontiac, then it would be something else…

“Darn,I figured 25 mile road was far enough, but the gangbangers & hoodlums are following us out this way…”

“Yes indeed. This bus idea sure is grand. It will make it so much easier to get from Detroit to the suburbs. One can only imagine the crime wave this will facilitate.”

“Detroit folks despise people from the ‘burbs. Bus stops would entail them to stand in a fixed spot at fixed times. Might as well hand out shirts with targets on them!”

“I am so glad that I will be moving as far away from this system the crime rate well sky rocket for sure with the help of more out bound Detroit traffic”

You might argue that I’m cherry-picking, but growing up in Rochester Hills I can honestly (and unfortunately) say that this group-think attitude is pervasive and near ubiquitous.

The challenge of unifying the city and suburbs in Detroit metro is far more about culture than it is about which commuter trains or bus lines to build and buy.