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	<title>Comments on: Reversing Roles: Should Washington Cover Operations Costs?</title>
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	<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/06/11/reversing-roles-should-washington-cover-operations-costs/</link>
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		<title>By: Joseph E</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/06/11/reversing-roles-should-washington-cover-operations-costs/#comment-48816</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 20:45:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=7288#comment-48816</guid>
		<description>I think this is an interesting debate.

Perhaps there are a few places where a federal or national subsidy is clearly needed. In particular, I would point out that the federally-mandated discounts for seniors and the disabled are unfunded, and paratransit (taxi) services for the disabled are not fully funded by federal dollars.

If the feds would pick up the whole tab for paratransit and the discounts given to seniors, the disabled and perhaps students, that would go a long way to improving operations. Add on an &quot;emergency&quot; operations fund, accessible during recessions, and transit would have a much more stable future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is an interesting debate.</p>
<p>Perhaps there are a few places where a federal or national subsidy is clearly needed. In particular, I would point out that the federally-mandated discounts for seniors and the disabled are unfunded, and paratransit (taxi) services for the disabled are not fully funded by federal dollars.</p>
<p>If the feds would pick up the whole tab for paratransit and the discounts given to seniors, the disabled and perhaps students, that would go a long way to improving operations. Add on an &#8220;emergency&#8221; operations fund, accessible during recessions, and transit would have a much more stable future.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/06/11/reversing-roles-should-washington-cover-operations-costs/#comment-48665</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 16:56:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=7288#comment-48665</guid>
		<description>Fine. Tegucigalpa runs transit profitably. So does Tokyo. It&#039;s not quite zero-cost to government in Tokyo, but the transit operators are profitable after depreciation, interest, and taxes.

There&#039;s a big difference between being open to change, and succumbing to not-invented-here syndrome. In a third-world country, which is what the US is when it comes to transit, the best thing to do is copy what the big boys are doing, learn, and only then innovate if the in-house experts find it prudent. There&#039;s a difference between an established house of experts saying &quot;We could try this&quot; and a government giving grants to inexperienced people so they can reinvent the wheel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fine. Tegucigalpa runs transit profitably. So does Tokyo. It&#8217;s not quite zero-cost to government in Tokyo, but the transit operators are profitable after depreciation, interest, and taxes.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a big difference between being open to change, and succumbing to not-invented-here syndrome. In a third-world country, which is what the US is when it comes to transit, the best thing to do is copy what the big boys are doing, learn, and only then innovate if the in-house experts find it prudent. There&#8217;s a difference between an established house of experts saying &#8220;We could try this&#8221; and a government giving grants to inexperienced people so they can reinvent the wheel.</p>
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		<title>By: Danny</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/06/11/reversing-roles-should-washington-cover-operations-costs/#comment-48639</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 14:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=7288#comment-48639</guid>
		<description>Well, I take exception to your exception as well as your example to prove your exception. We may not need to test to see if global warming has happened, but since all global warming projections are based on unproven forecasting models that rely on positive feedbacks that haven&#039;t been observed with the accuracy of modern equipment...yes we have to continue to test. Most likely not to see that it is happening, but rather to see how fast it is happening and to know which of the many models are most accurate in its prediction capability. And since the climate is dominated by both positive and negative feedback effects, measuring that it is still happening is still useful even if it is not likely that global warming will stop any time soon. 

Likewise, we may know what works, but there is always a better to be achieved. Medellin transports more than 40,000 people per day on a gondola that was magnitudes cheaper than other forms of separated grade transit. All of Central America runs on a chartered route system with individually owned buses which are typically owned by the drivers...and in Tegucigalpa they have city wide ridership estimates of well over 1,000,000 per day...all running at operating profits and at zero net cost to the local governments. 

Sure, we may know what works in the developed world, but if you asked what worked in the developed world in 1920, you would have come up with an answer like &quot;Completely private market subways and streetcars&quot;. The world is different now, and while we may have an idea of current best practices, we need to be open to the fact that they will change with new technology, constraints, costs, and problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I take exception to your exception as well as your example to prove your exception. We may not need to test to see if global warming has happened, but since all global warming projections are based on unproven forecasting models that rely on positive feedbacks that haven&#8217;t been observed with the accuracy of modern equipment&#8230;yes we have to continue to test. Most likely not to see that it is happening, but rather to see how fast it is happening and to know which of the many models are most accurate in its prediction capability. And since the climate is dominated by both positive and negative feedback effects, measuring that it is still happening is still useful even if it is not likely that global warming will stop any time soon. </p>
<p>Likewise, we may know what works, but there is always a better to be achieved. Medellin transports more than 40,000 people per day on a gondola that was magnitudes cheaper than other forms of separated grade transit. All of Central America runs on a chartered route system with individually owned buses which are typically owned by the drivers&#8230;and in Tegucigalpa they have city wide ridership estimates of well over 1,000,000 per day&#8230;all running at operating profits and at zero net cost to the local governments. </p>
<p>Sure, we may know what works in the developed world, but if you asked what worked in the developed world in 1920, you would have come up with an answer like &#8220;Completely private market subways and streetcars&#8221;. The world is different now, and while we may have an idea of current best practices, we need to be open to the fact that they will change with new technology, constraints, costs, and problems.</p>
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		<title>By: R. W. Rynerson</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/06/11/reversing-roles-should-washington-cover-operations-costs/#comment-48591</link>
		<dc:creator>R. W. Rynerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 05:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=7288#comment-48591</guid>
		<description>One of the oddities of this issue that is usually overlooked is that although Federal subsidies for operations in large metro areas were discontinued, the Federal role in directing how service is provided has continued without considering that this affects operating costs.  Mandates for a variety of services have worthy goals, but come out of local funding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the oddities of this issue that is usually overlooked is that although Federal subsidies for operations in large metro areas were discontinued, the Federal role in directing how service is provided has continued without considering that this affects operating costs.  Mandates for a variety of services have worthy goals, but come out of local funding.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/06/11/reversing-roles-should-washington-cover-operations-costs/#comment-48302</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=7288#comment-48302</guid>
		<description>Good response, but I&#039;d like to just comment on your &quot;wide range in experiments&quot; point. At this stage, doing experiments on transit is akin to doing experiments to check whether global warming is happening.

In dense urban areas, we know what works because there are dozens of first-world cities with functional transit systems to learn from; in less dense urban areas, we have a reasonable number of examples as well, from Canada and Australia. To try to rediscover what the rest of the first world has been doing for decades is to reinvent the wheel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good response, but I&#8217;d like to just comment on your &#8220;wide range in experiments&#8221; point. At this stage, doing experiments on transit is akin to doing experiments to check whether global warming is happening.</p>
<p>In dense urban areas, we know what works because there are dozens of first-world cities with functional transit systems to learn from; in less dense urban areas, we have a reasonable number of examples as well, from Canada and Australia. To try to rediscover what the rest of the first world has been doing for decades is to reinvent the wheel.</p>
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		<title>By: BruceMcF</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/06/11/reversing-roles-should-washington-cover-operations-costs/#comment-48296</link>
		<dc:creator>BruceMcF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jun 2010 05:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=7288#comment-48296</guid>
		<description>Two points jump out immediately.

The first is that the question of the reaction to the recession is entirely obscured by the development versus redistribution framing. The primary point with respect to the recession is that it is the fiscal authority at the level of the sovereign issuer of currency that has the responsibility to increase deficit spending to provide the assets to permit excess saving to occur during recessionary conditions because it is the only level that CAN do that. Expecting California or New York or South Carolina or Ohio to fulfill that responsibility would be like expecting Greece to fulfill that responsibility within the Eurozone.

But that is an economic stabilization function and could be done on an entirely functional basis - subsidize transit operations in proportion to the reduction in tax base as a stabilizing measure and subsidize transit operations in proportion to population served and decline in national economic activity as a stimulus measure.

The second is that independence of oil-fired transport is a national security concern, so that federal operating subsidies for oil-free transport are justified on a national defense basis. That could well be on the basis of a per capita distribution to an account for each municipality, and counties and reservations for residents outside incorporated areas. Then projects would compete for funding from those accounts by being certified as qualifying projects, and then making their case to be allocated funding. If the funds were on a use-it-or-lose-it basis, we would see a wide range in experiments in a range of qualifying oil-free transport.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two points jump out immediately.</p>
<p>The first is that the question of the reaction to the recession is entirely obscured by the development versus redistribution framing. The primary point with respect to the recession is that it is the fiscal authority at the level of the sovereign issuer of currency that has the responsibility to increase deficit spending to provide the assets to permit excess saving to occur during recessionary conditions because it is the only level that CAN do that. Expecting California or New York or South Carolina or Ohio to fulfill that responsibility would be like expecting Greece to fulfill that responsibility within the Eurozone.</p>
<p>But that is an economic stabilization function and could be done on an entirely functional basis &#8211; subsidize transit operations in proportion to the reduction in tax base as a stabilizing measure and subsidize transit operations in proportion to population served and decline in national economic activity as a stimulus measure.</p>
<p>The second is that independence of oil-fired transport is a national security concern, so that federal operating subsidies for oil-free transport are justified on a national defense basis. That could well be on the basis of a per capita distribution to an account for each municipality, and counties and reservations for residents outside incorporated areas. Then projects would compete for funding from those accounts by being certified as qualifying projects, and then making their case to be allocated funding. If the funds were on a use-it-or-lose-it basis, we would see a wide range in experiments in a range of qualifying oil-free transport.</p>
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		<title>By: Pantheon</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/06/11/reversing-roles-should-washington-cover-operations-costs/#comment-48275</link>
		<dc:creator>Pantheon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jun 2010 02:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=7288#comment-48275</guid>
		<description>Transit systems that serve as a mobility of last resort are not redistributive. They are developmental. A certain percentage of workers - particularly in industries like fast food - do not have cars. Business owners and corporations that pay subsistence-level wages need transit so the slaves can get to work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Transit systems that serve as a mobility of last resort are not redistributive. They are developmental. A certain percentage of workers &#8211; particularly in industries like fast food &#8211; do not have cars. Business owners and corporations that pay subsistence-level wages need transit so the slaves can get to work.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/06/11/reversing-roles-should-washington-cover-operations-costs/#comment-48250</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 22:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=7288#comment-48250</guid>
		<description>I mean Toei, which is the less efficient of the two systems. It has 6,400 employees, Tokyo Metro 8,500. I bring up Toei and not Tokyo Metro as a basis for comparison because Toei gives a more precise breakdown of its operating costs; Tokyo Metro just says what its operating costs are, without saying how much is labor expenses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mean Toei, which is the less efficient of the two systems. It has 6,400 employees, Tokyo Metro 8,500. I bring up Toei and not Tokyo Metro as a basis for comparison because Toei gives a more precise breakdown of its operating costs; Tokyo Metro just says what its operating costs are, without saying how much is labor expenses.</p>
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		<title>By: simple</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/06/11/reversing-roles-should-washington-cover-operations-costs/#comment-48246</link>
		<dc:creator>simple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 21:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=7288#comment-48246</guid>
		<description>Do you mean Toei or Tokyo Metro?  I suspect that some of Toei&#039;s administrative overhead gets buried in the overall budget of the Transportation Bureau of the Tokyo Metropolitan Government.  As for Tokyo Metro, from what I can tell they also benefit from much looser restrictions on use of part-time employees -- a lot of those staff that help shove you on the train are working part time without benefits.  Also from what I understand, a number of maintenance functions (i.e. fare collection equipment) are performed by contract vendors which for me makes their labor accounting tough to compare with standard US practice.  Happy to hear your take on it, though!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you mean Toei or Tokyo Metro?  I suspect that some of Toei&#8217;s administrative overhead gets buried in the overall budget of the Transportation Bureau of the Tokyo Metropolitan Government.  As for Tokyo Metro, from what I can tell they also benefit from much looser restrictions on use of part-time employees &#8212; a lot of those staff that help shove you on the train are working part time without benefits.  Also from what I understand, a number of maintenance functions (i.e. fare collection equipment) are performed by contract vendors which for me makes their labor accounting tough to compare with standard US practice.  Happy to hear your take on it, though!</p>
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		<title>By: simple</title>
		<link>http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/06/11/reversing-roles-should-washington-cover-operations-costs/#comment-48243</link>
		<dc:creator>simple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 21:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/?p=7288#comment-48243</guid>
		<description>I see your point, but I don&#039;t see how allocating federal operating assistance based on a combination of total ridership and off-peak service hours as I suggested would encourage inefficiency.  Taking your NJT example, if they&#039;re now maintaining an operating surplus and had the opportinity to receive federal ops funds based on total ridership and off-peak service hours, they would maximize future funding by adding service in ways that further increase ridership and/or provide more off-peak service.  Anything they would do to reduce efficiency (i.e., increase costs in ways that don&#039;t achieve higher ridership or more off-peak service) would mean less federal support during the next cycle, not more.  It should be self-correcting, shouldn&#039;t it?  

Since overall federal funds would be allocated based on share of total national ridership and off-peak service hours, broad economic effects would be normalized.  Recession-induced peak ridership declines would suggest that less peak service is needed, so the transit operator should be cutting back there anyway.  Off-peak service on the other hand is a social good, so that should not be jettisoned so quickly in lean times and the formula would respect that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see your point, but I don&#8217;t see how allocating federal operating assistance based on a combination of total ridership and off-peak service hours as I suggested would encourage inefficiency.  Taking your NJT example, if they&#8217;re now maintaining an operating surplus and had the opportinity to receive federal ops funds based on total ridership and off-peak service hours, they would maximize future funding by adding service in ways that further increase ridership and/or provide more off-peak service.  Anything they would do to reduce efficiency (i.e., increase costs in ways that don&#8217;t achieve higher ridership or more off-peak service) would mean less federal support during the next cycle, not more.  It should be self-correcting, shouldn&#8217;t it?  </p>
<p>Since overall federal funds would be allocated based on share of total national ridership and off-peak service hours, broad economic effects would be normalized.  Recession-induced peak ridership declines would suggest that less peak service is needed, so the transit operator should be cutting back there anyway.  Off-peak service on the other hand is a social good, so that should not be jettisoned so quickly in lean times and the formula would respect that.</p>
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